When I first came across this supposedly PK-oriented game on
TMC, I was impressed with the complexity of its combat system
and I looked forward to some intense PK action. Sadly, over the
years, my adventures there have led me to feel that this a game
you should probably avoid at all costs. The player base there is
very small and they get extremely upset when you kill them, often
subjecting you to torrents of abuse over one small death. Killing
them also seemed to upset the designer of this game, and he often
changes the game play on their whims. If you somehow manage to
succeed in any facet of the game, you will find the mechanics are
quickly adjusted against you. This has ruined PK and allows this
tiny incestuous group of players to run 'bots' to kill mobs for
hours while safe from PK. Since PK is pretty much the only thing
to do there, you will find yourself bored in short order.
However, if you enjoy scratching your head in befuddlement, or
banging it repeatedly against a wall, perhaps this is the place
Post a comment
Comment posted on Sat Aug 17 11:21:39 2013 by Sorressean:
First, I would really like to cut this review off and explain a bit
about the person(s) in charge of writing it. They came on a few years
ago and kind of fit in well with Godwars--they died and PKed and
everything was cool. Shortly after, they decided to start creating
alts (they now have about 150 of them in total). The changes that
KaVir has made to the game are patches to exploits that they are using
and abusing. These exploits are being used by a lot of people, but
this group of idiots just took the abuse to a whole new level. For
example, the two most recent changes KaVir implemented was a limit on
the characters that could war, and a preventative to keep people from
kill stealing. The war change was important because the writer of this
review (Batty) and his brother currently have about 150 alts between
them, which they would use to flood war. Four times a day a mini game
runs and allows players to play a sort of card game in order to gain
glory, which you can use to customize certain pieces of equipment in
the game. Batty and alts would all join the war with about 100 alts,
thus making the game sort of pointless as they were botting it. It
also made it hard for anyone who they didn't like because most
usually you'd have about 20 characters attacking you. The second
change he made was a preventative on kill stealing; when someone they
did not like would be getting primal(xp), they would kill them. After
you die, under certain conditions you gain some protection from PK.
since they could not kill the person directly, they decided to solve
the problem by killing the mobs the player was killing. For many,
there is nothing they can do about a max level character attacking
them or the mobs they are killing until they themselves are at that
same age. When these players are not engaged in being as much of a
nuisance as possible to all of the players, they like to spend their
time writing bots which respond every time a player uses a channel
with a random response. This obviously is spammy and serves no
With all of this out of the way, I would like to address what is
actually left in the review itself. KaVir takes a hard stand on
imposing no rules on the game himself, except those he can impose
through code. This obviously has numerous good and bad points; the
worst being that players like Batty have been able to drive players
away. On the other end of the spectrum though, it allows players to
essentially govern themselves with KaVir's intervention to solve
problems where needed. During my time playing the game, KaVir has
never directly stepped into a dispute or an argument; he has either
solved the problem by writing code to fix it, or in the case of misuse
of channels requesting that players move their arguments to a channel
created for it. As previously mentioned, there are a few issues that
people currently abuse, which KaVir is making an effort to fix; these
exploits for lack of a better term are what Batty and his brother are
taking advantage of. While many people bot and many people use any
advantage they can find, Batty takes this abuse to a whole new level.
They claim that it is for an altruistic purpose; apparently KaVir is
incapable of acknowledging and fixing bugs without a flagrant abuse of
In short, this review is utter trash; if the game is as bad as they
say it is, the least they could do is quit. As they've already
mentioned, it's nothing but a chat room for them; a chat room in
which they need about 20 characters connected between them in order to
participate. I also find it discouraging that a group of two people is
able to ruin a game to the point they have for so many people. While I
respect KaVir for his work on godwars and patches to prevent these
sorts of exploits from taking place, it's high time something was
done about it; these players have contributed nothing to the game and
are doing everything possible to bring it down.
Comment posted on Sun Aug 18 03:06:17 2013 by Anonymous:
Indeed the entire player base multi-plays and has many alts,
including the person who chose to respond to this review.
The difference is that the developer chooses to protect
their alts/bots specifically and implements measures to allow
them to bot unimpeded. You will find that botting or
multi-playing aren't a problem until YOU choose to do it and
anger these certain players. You will hear from these same
players how they plan to take over the game with hundreds
of alts, but good luck if you try to complain about it.
Another annoying aspect of the game is that certain players
have been given unique items by the developer that the rest
of the player base does not have access to. You can't even
pay real cash to get them, and since the developer has given
up on the game, you will not be getting access to them any
I certainly do not wish to bring this game down as is implied
above, I am merely stating some observations I have made from
being a long-time player. This review will likely anger those
players and they will try to spout some rubbish to justify
their actions, but at the end of the day you should probably
just let them play with themselves and save yourself a headache.
Comment posted on Sun Aug 18 08:55:12 2013 by Sorressean:
First, this idea of KaVir playing favorites keeps coming up; the idea
is ludicrous at best. KaVir has never complained about multiplaying,
nor does anyone care to stop it. Everyone has alts (just not 150 of
them), and everyone multiplays to a point. There's only so much you
can multiplay viably, especially if you care about PK and do not want
to get attacked. The exploits that have been fixed were exploits that
were issues in and of themselves; it was not a strike against Batty or
anyone else. KaVir is pretty fair on this point.
As for the unique items that were mentioned, these items were gained
through pvp matches using avatars (players who have not classed). The
items were given as a bonus for winning the matches; Batty and his
brother also had a chance to join these. Instead, they played their
usual game of flinging insults back and forth and complaining loudly
and voting the game down because they were not getting the chance to
harass players. KaVir had to spend extra time writing an arena of
sorts so that they could not jump in and ruin the matches for others.
KaVir has admittedly taken a break--he's taken two in the five or
six years I've been playing. As he is the main developer and this
game has been up for at least 8 years, I'd say he should be taking a
break from time to time. I have been on more the past few days and
KaVir has been active, putting in bug fixes and talking about new
ideas and development he is interested in working on. In short, I'd
say he hasn't exactly given up on the game.
With all of this said, I can't imagine anyone playing a game day
after day that they dislike so much. If the game really is that
horrible, I can only come to the conclusion that they like scratching
their head in befuddlement/banging it repeatedly against a wall, which
I guess explains where this review comes from. Bang on, bro!
Comment posted on Sun Aug 18 16:04:39 2013 by Anonymous:
I'm sorry but we are going to have to agree to disagree on these
points. Considering you don't even play the game much anymore,
I'm not entirely sure you are even qualified to comment. You are
simply an apologist for the players that I have mentioned above.
You know little of PK from what I have seen, and you are merely
holding a grudge against the players who killed you. As a player
who threatened to ruin the game with your alts and who claims
every time they are killed that they were botting, I'm not sure
you are aware of the irony of any of your statements. I still
enjoy the mechanics of this game which is what keeps me around,
but the player base seems to have some real emotion problems and
extremely fragile egos. I would suggest you keep your personal
grudges to yourself if you want to remain objective.
Comment posted on Mon Aug 19 02:41:13 2013 by KaVir:
I don't blame people for exploiting bugs or loopholes in the mechanics, but the
issues still need to be fixed for the betterment of the game - because even if
you enjoy them in the short term, they are not fun for the majority, nor will
they even provide sustainable fun for you. A newbie cannot reasonably compete
with dozens of bots, nor can they progress if they are killed over and over
again without a chance to catch their breath, or if bots follow them around
stealing their kills and preventing them from ever advancing. Without changes
to address these sort of issues new players will continue to be driven off (and
write reviews like http://www.mudconnect.com/mud-bin/prev/review.cgi?rid=31734),
and that's when the PK becomes boring - because there's nobody new to fight.
And these changes apply to everyone, there are no 'special measures'.
Regarding the 'unique items', those were given out as rewards for a player-run
tournament. You said you didn't trust the judge, so I offered to judge your
matches personally, but you declined. I'm afraid that's your loss, you'll now
have to wait until the items come into regular circulation. However as they
are epic items, and each character can only use one epic item at a time, it
doesn't put you at a disadvantage power-wise - it just means you haven't been
able to play with the new toys yet.
And yes, I took a break for a while, there were some other things I was working
on. But now I'm back and working on the mud again, so expect to see more
changes in the future.
Comment posted on Mon Aug 19 08:08:47 2013 by Anonymous:
I agree that players should not have to resort to using tons of
bots in the game in order to succeed, and that newbies should
not be harassed. The problem lies in that many of these so-called
newbies are not real newbies but are just older players spamming
alts and pretending to be newbies. It is pretty easy to tell the
difference between the two when you look at the time it took them
to class, or the gear they are wearing. Another problem lies in the
fact that people are able to bypass these things still using proxies.
A player named Mayhem uses it to get around the punishment for
entering multiple alts into the great war mini game, and I tested
it myself and realized that its possible to have multiple alts
in the Nexus this way, beyond the two normally allowed. I am also
quite sick of being blamed for these things. In actual fact I
have only had to resort to them to compete with the same people who
now complain so vocally about it and try to blame others. So, I
welcome any changes that will effectively prevent this sort of thing
and level the playing field for all players and real newbies.
Comment posted on Wed Aug 21 07:47:13 2013 by Bonecaster:
I've been playing GWII since 2008. Simply put, the best MUD around
for 'realistic' combat and movement, with the freedom to customize
and rebuild your characters as you see fit. The admin is not
oppressive or overly intrusive and while the development had slowed
recently it looks to be taking another upturn and I'm looking forward
to whatever new additions come our way.
The playerbase takes this freedom to the extreme of course, leading
to past abuses of botting both in the war minigame and PK, but KaVir
has taken adequate steps to deal with it. Typical, it seems, of any
competetive MUD environment where people seem to freak out when they
lose and then seek to even the odds with any steps available to them.
One of the most attractive aspects of the game is that it is
completely free, so there is no 'donation equipment' for people to
stack up the odds in their favour. So if you're looking for a true
test of skill in PVP with fairly well-balanced classes, this is the
ideal place to find it.
On the other hand, one of the larger issues working to reduce fun in
the overall game is the safe-mode change. Players abusing botting
apparently didn't enjoy having their bots killed repeatedly, leading
to the ability to bot for 8+ hours in PK environments while remaining
completely invulnverable. This serves to eliminate the balancing
risk/reward factor in gear accumulation, which I feel will lead to
further balance issues down the road. Yet, I feel that with KaVir's
history of finding innovative ways to solve problems with player
behaviour even this issue will be resolved in the near future.
Players win, others lose, smacktalk escalates in hyperbole and
outright lies,but the game rolls on- and continues to be, in my
opinion, the most exciting and original MUD I've found.
Comment posted on Thu Aug 29 19:37:43 2013 by Anonymous:
The worst part is friends killing each other to get safe mode.
This is an abusive tactic that I have seen players who can't
fight using lately. I saw a player named Pygmalion killing his
friend Shin so that he could be safe for hours. This kind of
thing has utterly ruined the game and until it is addressed PK
(which is pretty much the only thing to do most of the time for
older players) will become extinct.
Comment posted on Sat May 16 20:53:23 2015 by Necroface:
Alright, so I got a bit curious and dropped by TMC to see where GWII
stands after returning and whatnot.
Came across this.
Let me give you the straight up math of this situation so you all can
determine who is full of BS here and who is being honest.
time that Colossus (the Pantheon[or guild] consisting of the Original
Poster and his brother Bonecaster, and their 3290864389264 alts)
joined the game and until they left, we went from a solid healthy
playerbase with new players, old players, mid players and people
returning, to almost nothing. It dropped down to only the die hards
and we barely enjoyed it outside of dueling each other and whatnot.
Now, yes there was a division of players as the OP said. And yes
there were many, MANY changes that KaV was forced to make in the
to alter Colossus' game play.
But you know what? The
division was literally Colossus(2ppl) > The Entire Community.
changes made? To stop them from just being outright unpleasant. They
lived and breathed for griefing.
New players, old players,
whatever, they would do anything at all in their power to make them
not enjoy the game.
There's a system that was put in place where, if you are massively
more powerful than someone else, and you kill them, a ridiculously
strong NPC called a Paradox Spirit would spawn and kill you if
you didn't get away quick enough. Also, you gain absolutely no Primal
Colossus would STILL slaughter newbies over and over
and run like hell from it.
Then they would spam chat with the
most absurd comments.
I talk like a sailor, sure. But I'm not
hateful to anyone and everyone by nature. Good riddance to these two,
although Gary, the OP's brother,
is much more level headed, he
still participated in this when he felt like it.
These 'Just bots' they're killing are newbies that are trying
really hard to enjoy the game, and because Colossus slaughters our
playerbase to where newbies never want to continue, there is a SEVERE
gap in when you're actually able to PK with anyone. So we tell
newbies how to bot, the best places/etc to grind up as fast
as possible. And Colossus takes all measures to stop these newbies
Now to finish up this math?
After they left.
advertising on an old game.
We've been getting more newbies than
we've seen in a long time.
And guess what?