Member Discussions

Yes, I'm looking for a coder. And yes, I can code myself, thank you, quite well, from good old COBOL to C++. I've also immed and imped before, successfully, and have decided that being head coder, head builder, and handling player relations is too many hats for any one person--that is, if you want a successful mud, and don't want to be constantly interrupted at your coding.

Not to insult all you coders out there, who I greatly respect, but I found out the hard way that's it harder to find a head builder with good spelling and grammar and the patience to train builders, and harder to find someone for player relations who is fair and can hold his/her temper and not let his/her friends, uh, bend the rules.

So I've assigned myself the two jobs hardest to fill, and seek a coder as co-imp (equal privileges but I foot the bill) who will have equal input into shaping the MUD. Two themes are already sketched out in detail, both focussing on combat, rp-encouraged themes, but with most of a char's power inherent in the char itself, rather than boosts from eq.

Anyone interested in co-imping, with you as head coder and me as head-dirty-work-and-patient-explainer-of-their/they're/there, please post here or e-mail me. As usual, samples of your work and references will be expected. Heaps of experience aren't required, since I'll be sheltering you from most of the distractions, but skill is expected.

First subject of discussion will be, why is everyone recommending Smaug to me as the starting code base for a char-centered mud? I've read it, several times. Looks buggy, even FUSS, short supply of builders trained in Smaug, lack of plug-ins and add-ons and pre-built areas, and the only reason I can see that it would be easy to modify to make it char-centered is that there simply ISN'T much there to modify. (Anyone can chime in on this last part.)

Hope to hear (*grin* that's "hear", not "here") from interested co-imps.

Some way to contact you might be helpful.

Oh, sorry, I thought it posted by itself. GardenLadyToo@cableone.net

I would have thought the most builders would be trained in SMAUG seeing is how it's the easiest to build on. At least, it's the easiest to learn how to build on in my opinion, though there maybe something even easier than it, though I have yet to stumble across it.

I would have thought the most builders would be trained in SMAUG seeing is how it's the easiest to build on.

I personally find smaug to be one of the harder codebases to build on because it has more commands that aren't necessary on other codebases (foldarea, assign....). Personally I think CircleMUD is the easiest, followed by ROM, ROT, DOT, and Sunder (all of which are ROM, or derivatives of it.)

First subject of discussion will be, why is everyone recommending Smaug to me as the starting code base for a char-centered mud?

Personal preference, probably. I use SMAUG as well, but if I had to suggest something, I would say start from scratch (if you have the time). Everything is just a matter of opinion, and I would say stick with something you're familiar/comfortable with.

I guess I'll toss my 2 cents in here, since I'm a glutton for punishment. I've found both Smaug and Circle MUD's on-line creation to be annoying, too rigid, and not all that powerful without various mprogs, etc added in to the mix.

So, when we decided to write our own codebase, we had three basics we always kept in mind: simplicity, versatility, and power (by power, I mean it was able to do damn near anything we needed.)

For simplicity we elected to make more than one interface which will be echoed for every aspect of building and admin. For building rooms we have 3, all others will have two. We have a menu driven interface (pick and choose what you want to modify), a mapper interface (everything but descriptions), and a complete interface (start with name and it leads you step by step through creation of an entire room -- note: we do monster and item creation separate)

For everything else that makes sense to have it, there will be only a complete and a menu-driven interface.

Within these interfaces everything can be done (exception as noted for mapper). We did it so each type of builder can use what is more "natural" for them (those who map out the area first then do descriptions, as opposed to those who want to do each room completely before moving to the next and the hybrid of the 2).

We're able to copy certain information from one class into another so we don't have to re-type everything (ie: THAC0, Saving Throws, etc), as well copying info for races and worlds.

It's a very simplistic, elegant, versatile (thanks to MySQL use we can update the information the monster, item, etc database easily with new features) and very powerful. We made it easy enough for anyone to be able to use, even knowing absolutely zero about mudding.

Maybe I'll go look at some implementations of SMAUG.

But remember, I'm really looking for a co-imp who's a coder, and as part of full control of the code, he gets to pick the code base he wants to start with.

I've had an awful lot of contacts from coders who have their muds all coded, and now want someone to come in and get them some players and builders and stuff, so I thought I'd explain more about why I'm looking to start from near-scratch with someone who really only wants to code. It's basically this:

Briefly, why I don't want to come in on a coded-but-empty mud that "needs builders and players" is this: To be successful, there's a lot of things BESIDES code that need to be done. A vision, a theme, a backstory to support the theme, game balance, a "unity" among the areas built so that they "fit" together and support the theme, thought given to having areas for all levels, (good spelling and grammar, so there's no jarring errors that interrupt the fantasy world experience. And, of course, it has to be fun for players. And thought needs to be given to how cheating will be controlled, and care taken to not build into the code things that encourage cheating. Thought needs to be given to the roles gods will play in the game, and clan leaders.

My experience has been that when a mud has been coded by someone who "just likes to code" (and the better the coder, the worse it is, coders just like to put every kewl slick spiffy bit of code they can into their code, with no thought given to all these other issues. And it's awfully, awfully hard to retrofit all the other elements after the code has been written. Coders are understandably real attached to their code, and dig in their heels when asked to disable part of it because, say it tends to produce cookie-cutter chars, all with the same skills, because the code encourages a "best" way to build a char. Bringing in an imp to retrofit all the other stuff is (a) more work for the imp than just starting from scratch, or almost-scratch; and (b) ususally results in conflict with the coder and a quick breakup of the relationship.

So, that's why I was looking for a good coder who just wants to code and doesn't like dealing with all that other stuff to do it right, from more or less the beginning, integrating everything from the start instead of the harder job of retrofitting all those other aspects.

Anyone want to chime in on coding-first vs. integrated development from the git-go?

Why is it always this stereotype that a coder only knows how to code and doesnt understand anything else???

It's not. I'm just getting a whole lot of contacts from folks who have apparentlly never given all the rest of it any thought. There seem to be a lot of them out there.

Was hoping to hook up with someone who doesn't want to handle all that other stuff.

I don't think that's necessarily the stereotype.

I think it's more that different people have different skills, and it's rare for one person to possess everything required. Design, coding, and content/story creation are all seperate skills.

> I'm just getting a whole lot of contacts from folks who
> have apparentlly never given all the rest of it any
> thought. There seem to be a lot of them out there.
>
> Was hoping to hook up with someone who doesn't want to
> handle all that other stuff.

Then it sounds like the people who contacted you are exactly the sort of people you were looking for...

Changing existing stuff isn't going to be any harder than creating it from scratch - in fact it'll likely be easier. Plus you can pick someone who's game design ideas are at least somewhat compatible with yours.

Yes, I did. Still feeling out a few for personal compatability.

I mostly posted that for the benefit of coders thinking of starting their own muds--get yourself a partner, and this is what the partner's supposed to do. Or that you'll need to do yourself.