Member Discussions

Most MUDs have ingame marriages, as does the one I used to player. At the beginning there was a rule that IMM characters could not marry mortal characters, they needed to make a mortal character to do so. But as time went on the rules were overlooked many times. And IMMs began to marry mortal characters, and thus were accused of favouritism. Things such as..spelling up a mortals clan or just being seen fraternizing with a certain group of people more than others. Could this been seen a favouritism? Even though they obviously deny any of it, except the marriage part.

Anything could be seen as favoritism. That's a completely subjective term... or, at least, there's no way to determine objectively if it is, or not. There's not a whole lot you can do about it though, except make your own MUD and rule against cross-existential marriage. Either way, even if the IMM makes a mortal character, everyone (or the people that matter here), are going to eventually figure out that the mortal character is also the IMM. That being said, I can't see that creating a rule like what you're talking about would do any good either. If you were really concerned about it, I would imagine you'd have to rule out any "deep" relationships between your staff and players, but then that'd be practically impossible to enforce.

Anyway, I personally don't see much of a problem, separate from the staff's behavior. Seriously, if you have staff that break rules by "spelling up" players they like, you have more problems than marriage guidelines, and if "spelling up" players isn't against the rules, then you have to consider that, regardless of anything, some people are going to get it more than others anyway.

*shrug*

Best of Luck,
-Jess

From my own perspective, my wife and I were immortals AND players on an old mud, and were on occasion plagued with unfounded accusations of favortism, such as my helping my wife by casting her up, etc. Now this is of course more than just an in-game marriage, but it still applies. Neither she, nor I showed favortism towards each other, in fact, we would often go the opposite way, being less lenient with each other, not doing any casting up (there was a global casting command which allowed imms to cast up the entire mud, whomever was online at the time). Between ourselves we'd decided that if we were going to do any castings, whichever of us was playing a mortal would log off for about 15 mins or so while the casting was done.

If for some reason we were on as both our mortal and immortal, we'd never gcast, nor would we involve ourselves in any of the immortal run events such as invasions, etc.

For my mud, I've instituted a similar policy. We also disallow immortal/mortal "relationships" whereas one is an immortal the other an immortal. All immortals have been told, if favortism is found the immortal is demoted or their immortality revoked.

Things such as..spelling up a mortals clan or just being seen fraternizing with a certain group of people more than others. Could this been seen a favouritism? Even though they obviously deny any of it, except the marriage part.

Certainly. The only times, really, a person on my MUD gets restored is when -everyone else- gets restored at the same time. Or if I'm testing something. Generally the only times people get spelled up are as a bit of a 'reward' for helping me test something. I ask for volunteers on testing things, so it's not like I have a few certain people I favor to test something and spell them up.

As far as the general immortal staff... every immortal knows what is expected of them, and if it isn't their duty to interact with mortals outside of public channels and tells, they don't. "Marrying" mortals... what possible use can this have for an administrator? What "duty" or service does this do for the game?

I suppose for some MUDs, however, they don't have issue with immortals running around with players as if they are just another player with nifty powers, but we keep a tighter segregation between the two. If your MUD doesn't want to keep the two segregated, there are a few pretty simple solutions:

1) Add a check in the marriage code to disallow mortals and immortals from marrying. I don't really see the use in even two immortals marrying one another, so I would personally a check against an immortal character marrying at all, but just putting in a block for an immortal<->mortal marriage.

2) Take out the ability for immortals to spell up mortals. Again, what administrative purpose does that ability allow for? If Immortals are allowed to mingle with mortals, if they aren't able to spell them up, then that would cut out a lot of the problems right there, wouldn't it?


For my mud, I've instituted a similar policy. We also disallow immortal/mortal "relationships" whereas one is an immortal the other an immortal. All immortals have been told, if favortism is found the immortal is demoted or their immortality revoked.

That might be a bit extreme in my opinion, but to each their own. As far as I'm concerned, if two people are in a "relationship" outside of anything in-character, don't bring it to the rest of the MUD and that's fine. Most people don't want to stumble upon that or hear people flirting like that over OOC channels. Like I said above, for the most part (unless it's part of the immortal's duties) they don't mingle with mortals, and outside of extreme and obvious cheating, there really isn't much in place for most immortals but the highest ranks to show and favortism toward anyone. If an immortal

They wouldn't be demoted for flirting, etc...they'd be demoted if they showed favortism (ie: giving items to a mortal, casting them up constantly but not everyone else, etc).

As to married immortals, in my game, immortals portray or take their names from various deities or some similar type of being. For instance, my wife and I use the names Paladine and Mishakal from Dragonlance, who are the head deities of the "good" side of the pantheon, and are married as well. So for us, it makes sense to rp being a married couple when the mud opens. (Besides the fact that we're actually married...art imitates life afterall. lol)

"Most MUDs have ingame marriages"

I wonder how true that is and how many MUDs would add them if it became a search option on TMC listings.

I wonder how true that is and how many MUDs would add them if it became a search option on TMC listings.

A lot of MUDs do have marriages in some form or another. Please ready your sick bags.

A few custom games (mainly RP ones) have marriages coded and of course God Wars (well, I know the original (God Wars I) had marriages coded in). I've seen one MUD with a divorce command... you never know when that might be useful.

Wheel of Time themed MUDs* often have a "bond" weave or command that on an IC aspect provides a link between an Aes Sedai (female spell/weave caster type) and a Warder (token bodyguard/meat-shield). Nine times out of ten bonding is used as a form of "marriage" between players apart from some diehard role players who may choose not to use the dry and overused "classic" Aes Sedai/Warder love story as their foundation blocks for their role play (I find it about as interesting as the equally overused "Trollocs ate my parents and now I am seeking revenge against the Shadow" background stories). Often bonding is a "marriage of convenience" as usually on WoT themed MUDs Warders gain extra benefits such as faster healing for their character when they bond and of course the private Warder/Aes Sedai channel although there are a few people out there that seek to be Warders solely for some "hot Aes Sedai action". I guess that other themes may have a similar things but I haven't seen anything on my travels so far.

Games where marriages are not coded tend to go for the "I write your name in my title, you write my name in yours" approach after a cutesy wedding service... aww! You're more likely to see this on a RP MUD than hack/slash but it's not totally unheard of. With that said, you probably would not see Mr. and Mrs. Saiyen skipping around your local Dragonball Z MUD, accompanied with their herd of offspring unless the MUD was God Wars based or using a code base with marriages already implemented...

And how many MUDs would put marriages as an added feature on the TMC listings? Probably only the MUDs that have marriages coded in and you can receive bonuses for getting hitched (even if it is just a lousy gold ring with no real benefits as a piece of equipment and a private channel with your spouse). I personally see very little point of making marriages as a focal point for MUDs. On the other hand I do have a friend that feels that coded marriage helps with RP although I am confused as to why a flag to say "you are married to X" and a private channel for you and X to share would be of any help in roleplay unless you are RPing on that private channel. Let's just code in extramarital affairs (You are affected by "hickeys" for 72 hours – try explaining that affect to your spouse when she/he examines you) and the option to take half of a guy's equipment and money when you divorce them (if you can be bothered to). A girl has to have some cash to look her best when she is exchanging/upgrading her spouse from a lackey to the lackey's guild leader.

* I understand that was a rather simplified version of the Aes Sedai/Warder relationship on WoT themed MUDs.

Real life marriage is a pita
why in the world would you want to get
married on a mud.. I can see it as a medium
for two like minded people to hook up but
honestly.. I can only imagine the chaos
the mud divorce would cause... ha ha ha
Is there a command for that btw? Rules?
Is it a no fault mud divorce or does the
woman get all your high end equipment?









Telnet Mudhost.com 3001
Http://apex.mudhost.com/html/index.php

Real life marriage is a pita
why in the world would you want to get
married on a mud.. I can see it as a medium
for two like minded people to hook up but
honestly.. I can only imagine the chaos
the mud divorce would cause... ha ha ha
Is there a command for that btw? Rules?
Is it a no fault mud divorce or does the
woman get all your high end equipment?

Many reasons can be used for Mud Marriage, including and mostly, RP. Then any considerations for "divorce" would be within the confines of whatever type of system you employ, or the actions by those in character.

-Syn

You have no sense of humor do you? At all..
lighten up.. I can see the reason for mud marriage.
It was a joke. WOW!

A few custom games (mainly RP ones) have marriages coded and of course God Wars (well, I know the original (God Wars I) had marriages coded in). I've seen one MUD with a divorce command... you never know when that might be useful.

I think most muds have divorce commands. Although on some they like to name it kill instead of divorce.

You have no sense of humor do you? At all..
lighten up.. I can see the reason for mud marriage.
It was a joke. WOW!

Well, not being able to read your mind, and not knowing you personally, sarcasm can easily be lost through typed word.

There is really no reason to be a jerk about it however. Especially since all I did was fill in the blanks for people who potentially really dont see the reason, or havent been exposed to it.

-Syn

No, but obviously you're not married or you
would get the joke. After 12 years w/the same
man and no I'm not gay, I'm female. You would
understand the joke.. why would you want to get
married on a mud if you are really married in real
life the point of a mud as you have read in what I think
is a good mud, is to escape. It's fun to play out
a movie, it's fun to kill characters you like or don't
like.. it's all about fun. Thats why I asked if there
was a divorce command, and I find it even funnier
that someone posted it being the kill command.

So in fantasy when you get sick of your spouse you
can just kill them?

Anyway, whatever we don't care we just wanted
a review of functionality and playability.
sorry you thought Vampire D was a player.
Sorry it's not explained well enough like
I said you're more than welcome to log on
and talk to the people who do play but obviously
the game we have worked on for over 5 years
isn't for you so it would be a waste of your time.
Originality went into different areas of the game.
a good example is the npc functionality, the
class skills, the armor. But on top of it
all it is fun to make fun of everything.

But please the next time you review someones mud
imagine what it is like to hang yourself out
on a limb and invite complete strangers into
a private world of 5 years, it's not easy
and it wasn't to ask you to play it was the
best possible place to ask people to do
us a favor and we figured the mud community
would be down, not get into some license
law debate about not having some text in
the logo. It's there now, nobody was trying
to hide anything it just wasn't something
anyone realised was so freaking important
it would over ride the favor that was asked,
so people wont play a game that doesn't have
the proper license stuff.. okay np. In the
end we never really did get what we wanted
from anyone but Drizzt1216 he was the only
one cool enough to check it out and give
feedback, I thought this community would
be a lot more friendly but it's uncomfortable
and people are just different, I am use to
the linux community, If I knew we were doing
something wrong it would of been changed years ago
so after 5 years a couple of hours didn't seem like
a huge deal.
Another thing, we don't want to debate
the circlemud/diku thing it wasn't about
trying to say it was an original engine.
It was to find out what we needed to change
to make it more player friendly and getting
put on a big wood pile and set on fire after
being dunked in a lake and not floating isn't
my idea of community.

Not a single new player has come from this
community, it has come from us showing our
friends and co-workers and the favor
asked of this community wasn't to come play
it was to tell us what was wrong in a functionl
educated way. Not put them on trial and be mean,
I reviewed a mud that was asking for players the
game isn't for me but I didn't try to destroy their
pride in their work.

So in fantasy when you get sick of your spouse you can just kill them?

Carter: Teal'c, how do Jaffa couples handle their problems?
Teal'c: On Chulak, a dispute between a man and a woman that cannot be resolved necessitates a pledge break. It must be requested by one and granted by the other.
Daniel: And if that doesn't work?
Teal'c: A weapon is required.

If only it was so simple in the real world :)
I love it too bad the only other female that
plays the mud I work on is a lesbian that
would be fun to add but then again the pbase
I have would probably find it funny to make
fun of gay marriage and marry each other..
ugh..

No, but obviously you're not married or you
would get the joke. After 12 years w/the same
man and no I'm not gay, I'm female. You would
understand the joke.. why would you want to get
married on a mud if you are really married in real
life the point of a mud as you have read in what I think
is a good mud, is to escape. It's fun to play out
a movie, it's fun to kill characters you like or don't
like.. it's all about fun. Thats why I asked if there
was a divorce command, and I find it even funnier
that someone posted it being the kill command.

So in fantasy when you get sick of your spouse you
can just kill them?

Anyway, whatever we don't care we just wanted
a review of functionality and playability.
sorry you thought Vampire D was a player.
Sorry it's not explained well enough like
I said you're more than welcome to log on
and talk to the people who do play but obviously
the game we have worked on for over 5 years
isn't for you so it would be a waste of your time.
Originality went into different areas of the game.
a good example is the npc functionality, the
class skills, the armor. But on top of it
all it is fun to make fun of everything.

But please the next time you review someones mud
imagine what it is like to hang yourself out
on a limb and invite complete strangers into
a private world of 5 years, it's not easy
and it wasn't to ask you to play it was the
best possible place to ask people to do
us a favor and we figured the mud community
would be down, not get into some license
law debate about not having some text in
the logo. It's there now, nobody was trying
to hide anything it just wasn't something
anyone realised was so freaking important
it would over ride the favor that was asked,
so people wont play a game that doesn't have
the proper license stuff.. okay np. In the
end we never really did get what we wanted
from anyone but Drizzt1216 he was the only
one cool enough to check it out and give
feedback, I thought this community would
be a lot more friendly but it's uncomfortable
and people are just different, I am use to
the linux community, If I knew we were doing
something wrong it would of been changed years ago
so after 5 years a couple of hours didn't seem like
a huge deal.
Another thing, we don't want to debate
the circlemud/diku thing it wasn't about
trying to say it was an original engine.
It was to find out what we needed to change
to make it more player friendly and getting
put on a big wood pile and set on fire after
being dunked in a lake and not floating isn't
my idea of community.

Not a single new player has come from this
community, it has come from us showing our
friends and co-workers and the favor
asked of this community wasn't to come play
it was to tell us what was wrong in a functionl
educated way. Not put them on trial and be mean,
I reviewed a mud that was asking for players the
game isn't for me but I didn't try to destroy their
pride in their work.

When you invite people into your private world, and something like actual laws comes up, thats going to come more readily then anything else.

If you took stole some code in the linux community and tried to post it in something else, and people caught you on it, good for them. You dont go and harangue others because they point it out.

If it took you 5 years to come up with silly "parodies" about everything childish, well that says alot about you.

Normally there is a pretty huge line between making fun of stuff, and just throwing every random and non-sensical thing you could possibly imagine into one place. If you found people that enjoy that, great. If you havent gotten anyone from the community that pretty much tells you alot also.

If you dont like the response that you get when asking a question, to bad. You asked, they pointed out legal issues, if it wasnt a real issue you should have just ignored it, and carried on. However you didnt, you actually added compliance to what your claiming needed none, that in of itself is silly if you had nothing to credit.

-Syn

I'm not starting a debate here, (especially not in such a tangent of this thread) but you seem to be in the dark about why people responded the way they did. Perhaps I can shed some light on that. Everyone else interested in staying on-topic can skip this post.

The people you're going to get to read your posts here, and to respond to you, are typically going to be MUD owners, which generally tends to mean developers as well. That being said, programmers tend to look out for the rights of other programmers, just as anyone would for their co-workers, or the like. As a member of a band, who's struggling to make it, you're probably going to have a different view on copyright infringement when it comes to file sharing, for example, knowing how hard it is to actually *sell* your work, when everyone can get it for free. This is a similar concept, and programmers tend to have an empathetic view towards other developers who have their work stolen, requests unheard, and credits removed.

That being said, there are a number of individuals in the community now, as there have pretty much always been, and probably always will be, who have stolen work and/or stripped credits from other codebases and developers. Despite the obvious insult this is to the community, and original author, which most of us hence feel as almost a *personal* attack, these situations have directly caused other, irrevocable damage as well. Foremost in many of our minds is the fact that many original codebase authors (the Diku team, who allowed for much of our community, at the forefront), have since left the community and/or stopped developing open-source (which is the sole reason our community thrives to begin with). Unfortunately, it is hard to combat this type of infringement for large MUDs, typically located out of the US, who run on their own server, and so the damage continues, and we feel, personally, for it all the while.

That said, when a MUD comes to the attention of the community here, which is infringing in such a way on the rights of another developer or codebase, the response which can be expected is that of shock, and personal injury. It may not seem like anything to you, but it is everything to us. This also ties into the reason I said anything to you before, which is that when such a MUD, who is clearly infringing on the rights (and in this case, the copyright) of a codebase or developer, and, in fact, he *does* live in the U.S., and/or he *isn't* a large MUD, and/or he *doesn't* run off his own server, there are steps which can be taken to cause quite a bit of trouble for the MUD owner. Given the reaction, which I hope you now understand, causing that kind of trouble would be no more unreasonable, or unexpected, as reporting the burglary of your neighbors house to the police.

Unfortunately, you are also going to encounter a certain number of crass, rude, and pointlessly inflammatory responses from individuals on these forums, and it's not surprising to me that *those* posts are going to be the ones you receive, though lacking the other helpful individuals whom don't wish to be rude, but whom also don't wish to help someone so violating their rights. If you'd like to get *actual* playtesters, you'd be best off correcting the licensing problems *immediately*, and re-requesting such in a new thread. I'd be willing to submit such a review myself, but not for a MUD which failed to abide by legal requirements requested by a fellow developer.

Best of Luck to you,
-Jess

Head-on. Apply directly to your forehead.

Head-on. Apply directly to your forehead.

Head-on. Apply directly to your forehead.

Head-on is available in the pharmacy section of a local store near you.

Hmm... I don't get it... I guess I'll take it as an insult, and sulk in the corner.

*sulks*

*smile*

Best of Luck,
-Jess

(Comment added by mann_jess on Wed Jan 17 0:15:09 2007)

Nevermind, I get it. Well, I did tell you to skip my post, after all. You're not very good at following directions, are you?

By the way, the commercial ends with: "I HATE your commercial, but I LOVE your product! Get it right, at least. Geese!!!

*smile*

Best of Luck,
-Jess

The followup commercial ends that way. The first version of the commercial didn't have that addon.

I was just trying to lighten the mood of this thread.

I made fun of mud marriage. Opps my bad.

I made fun of mud marriage. Opps my bad.

Bad Apexmud06, naughty Apexmud06! No cookie for you! Now go and write "I shall not make fun of MUD marriages." one hundred times on the blackboard. Ok, that sounded a little too freaky for me.

I'm not going to pretend that I am "holier than thou" on the MUD marriage front as almost all of the MUDs that I play are RP MUDs. I take the whole MUD marriage thing with a pinch of salt, everyone who does it has their own reasons but for me it is just a RP thing and considering some of the scenarios that I have RPed, getting married was among the least warped ones that I have participated in. There are some people out there that take MUD marriages a little too seriously... Excuse me whilst I retreat back into my ACME MUD Stalker Shelter.


(Comment added by Templeton on Wed Jan 17 4:29:49 2007)

Brainbox... Let me guess... Are you a builder? *laughs* I love the "Grammar Time" avatar.

But please the next time you review someones mud
imagine what it is like to hang yourself out
on a limb and invite complete strangers into
a private world of 5 years, it's not easy

Anyone who ever started his own mud went through such a thing. I know for sure I did, and I also know it is fun.

I thought this community would
be a lot more friendly but it's uncomfortable
and people are just different, I am use to
the linux community

Haha, ever saw how that community responds to a violation of the GPL?

I'm sorry to say, but reading your posts is amusing, but not in a way that speaks in your favor.