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Author Topic: Has somebody made this MUD yet?  (Read 4865 times)

noob1

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Re: Has somebody made this MUD yet?
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2018, 1:34 AM »
Did some planning for the hierarchical generation style.  Using the square mileage of Earth, I subdivide each level of scale into 8 x 8 = 64 regions.  The hierarchy levels are: world, continent, kingdom, nation, land, city, district, building, room, for 9 total levels.  Room is about 20 sq ft. and there will be 281 trillion of them following this scheme (overland only).  Even though you have "random" generation, the hierarchy means there is method to the madness where city rooms know they're in an elf city building, which is in a forest, which belongs to King Jorck's Kingdom.  The leaves of the forest might shade the building during the day, and the King's crest might adorn the building if it is an official one.  So rooms, buildings and cities might "reach up" to their parent land and kingdom to get details that help them form a theme with their surroundings.  Each square, at each level of scale, has an ID that is just the ID of the parent, concatenated with the 0-7 x and 0-7 y coordinate of the "chessboard square" within the parent, and then hashed.  So the IDs are themselves hashes, that are really just the beginning of a stream of hashes that is as long as you want. 

If there is a unique starting point for players, monster levels could be equal to the number of "building" size zones (as the crow flies) the player is away from the start point, so the world isn't filled with "worthless" mobs right next to "unbeatable" ones as far as you can see.

I have never liked game rules that have no in-game explanation, like Everquest mobs summoning you into melee range whenever they want.  That might have avoided some exploits but sometimes an exploit is just the way your world words.  For instance, hovering in the air in Morrowind to shoot arrows or spells at the ground for an easy kill was allowed.  There were places you couldn't, like in low ceilinged crypts, but the restriction had an in-game reason.  I plan to allow powerleveling, twinking, and the like.  Pet classes will be allowed more than one pet such as elementals, undead, or charmed mobs, with an in-game tradeoff such as you become slower or more fragile the more you command.  Non pet classes should be able to hire hirelings in town for a fee and a share of loot.

Still brainstorming, suggestions welcome.

Pywackt

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Re: Has somebody made this MUD yet?
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2018, 8:18 AM »
Then you should really look into Empire MUD.
The whole map is a massive grid of 1800x1000 tiles, each with it's own biome. The animals are generated based on the same type of biome. Inside empires NPCs are spawned, regular folk working in various buildings, magicians or soldiers patroling etc.

The tiles can be claimed or abandoned by empires; found a city and claim any number of tiles inside a radius from the city center, or a limited number of tiles outside the city or an even more restricted number of tiles far from the city.

Buildings are player built and their interiors can be chosen by the player, designating one room at a time (hallway to the east, a bedroom the west), but won't affect the outside map. In some buildings, each room has a hash that looks like AXBXSAG.... that can be used to link to nearby buildings, which can be tunnels or skywalks.

noob1

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Re: Has somebody made this MUD yet?
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2018, 8:55 PM »
Thanks Pywackt, maybe I will check out Empire MUD this weekend.

Ateraan

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Re: Has somebody made this MUD yet?
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2018, 11:32 AM »
Then you should really look into Empire MUD.
The whole map is a massive grid of 1800x1000 tiles, each with it's own biome. The animals are generated based on the same type of biome.
This is an interesting concept. I'm assuming each biome is it's own area?
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zimmerman

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Re: Has somebody made this MUD yet?
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2018, 6:12 PM »
Neat idea.  I'm sitting here trying to think how someone would do infinite levels using CoffeeMud.  I know you can set the level cap to whatever number you want, so that's not a problem.  You can also have your entire world consist of a series of randomly generated level-appropriate instances.  That would take a lot of the M out of MUD, but it could be done.

The problems seem twofold: 
1. It's hard enough balancing a game with a hundred levels.  At infinite levels eventually small unbalances (one way or the other) compound into huge ones.  At level 10,000 either the game is way too easy, or way too hard.  No idea which.
2. It's hard enough getting enough players of similar levels together for grouping, but the more levels there are, the smaller the chance of congruence.

Interesting thought!

Now, a levelless game is much easier.  Disable the leveling system and use the skill-tree based internal skill system.  But too boring to actually try.

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« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 6:16 PM by zimmerman »

Jodah

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Re: Has somebody made this MUD yet?
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2018, 8:53 PM »
Why would the randomly generated area have to be an instance and not be a new permanent part of the world map?

Darkozx

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Re: Has somebody made this MUD yet?
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2018, 12:18 AM »
Honestly I don't see random generated content being a thing that's popular or well liked in a MUD. I get random generated equipment, but full on zones and basically the entire MUD, eh...kinda odd. It may as well be a single player game.
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Jodah

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Re: Has somebody made this MUD yet?
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2018, 12:58 AM »
In a fantasy world it would be odd, but it would work well for outer space and exploration, finding new solar systems.

Pywackt

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Re: Has somebody made this MUD yet?
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2018, 6:52 AM »
This is an interesting concept. I'm assuming each biome is it's own area?

Not sure I understand, English is not my native language you see.
The tiles aren't randomly placed. To give a few examples, if there's a river, then the tiles around it reflect that and have a different terrain, and different things you can harvest, different animals. If you come from the ocean, you'll near the shore you'll find shallow water tiles, then sandy beaches if you're near a desert or cliffs if near a mountain.

Actually, here's a link to the map https://empiremud.net/map-viewer/. In yellow are deserts, in different shades of green there are tropical and temperate areas. Darker shades are forests, since players can chop them down (and they regrow gradually) you'll see some areas are completely barren compared to others.

Epilogy

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Re: Has somebody made this MUD yet?
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2018, 11:31 AM »
This is an interesting concept. I'm assuming each biome is it's own area?

Not sure I understand

It's because he didn't read anything but a single post on the second page.  ::)

noob1

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Re: Has somebody made this MUD yet?
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2018, 10:15 PM »
Balance: I'm not sure it would be that hard to make things scale.  If you define a canonical player and level it up to level 10,000, then you could store your monster stats like: wolf: 10% less hp, 10% more dex than canonical player (of equivalent level).  bear: 15% more hp, 20% more strength than canonical player.  It's not based on the specific player, so if they have great strength gear they benefit from it, but you will also not have your players and monsters slowly diverge in power because of some math detail.  They are bound together.

Related: One of the things I liked about .hack was the ability to take on content way above your level for half a level per kill in reward.  Also in Everquest I appreciated being able to target content below my level for added safety.  With proper scaling, too hot, too cold, and just right should all be options.

Grouping:  Guilty as charged here.  One approach I have seen is letting players take on a lower (or even a higher) level temporarily to be able to play with friends.  It's not ideal but it's more ideal than no groups for anybody.

Skill Tree:  Maybe if the skill tree had ranks in it that were unlimited I could see this working.  Like with one ability you get +1 to damage, which you can upgrade to +2, +3, etc. (not going up the tree, but just upgrading a node).  One thing I would try to avoid is that moment when you have everything (like the whole skill tree and the best gear) leaving you nothing else to do.  Not as easy to balance as above either.

I logged on to Empire MUD but failed to follow the directions through the newbie quest!  Better try harder next time!