The Mud Connector

Author Topic: The state of "RPI" as a concept  (Read 6595 times)

wackydude

  • New to TMC
  • *
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Re: The state of "RPI" as a concept
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2018, 11:03 PM »
I haven't seen a single RPI where the staff actually enforced RP. At best the RP is highly encouraged. Open PK and skill grinding does not make for a good roleplay experience.

Epilogy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
    • View Profile
Re: The state of "RPI" as a concept
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2018, 12:05 AM »
Thank you for the original definition. I think Armageddon isn't an RPI then, due to guideline #3.

Don't read too far into it. Ateraan likes to be the hipster authority that making up terms that never really caught on.

Ask him about BORG sometime.

Jodah

  • TMC Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 510
    • View Profile
Re: The state of "RPI" as a concept
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2018, 1:07 AM »
Can someone explain to me how anyone has time to roleplay when there are mobs to kill, or how you roleplay when there aren't 50 people online?  Do you just talk to inanimate mobs the whole time?

Ateraan

  • TMC Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 801
  • New Worlds Ateraan
    • View Profile
    • New Worlds Ateraan
Re: The state of "RPI" as a concept
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2018, 2:01 AM »
Don't read too far into it. Ateraan likes to be the hipster authority that making up terms that never really caught on.

Ask him about BORG sometime.
BORG? What are you talking about Epilogy other than trying to find something to complain about? BORG originated from Star Trek not Ateraan and has been a term of hack and slash for over 3 decades.

I think you meant TORG.

As for making up the term RPI, Ateraan had nothing to do with it, we were just on the ground floor when the term was established and are with the small handful that still use it.
New Worlds Ateraan
www.ateraan.com

Ateraan

  • TMC Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 801
  • New Worlds Ateraan
    • View Profile
    • New Worlds Ateraan
Re: The state of "RPI" as a concept
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2018, 2:03 AM »
Can someone explain to me how anyone has time to roleplay when there are mobs to kill, or how you roleplay when there aren't 50 people online?  Do you just talk to inanimate mobs the whole time?
Roleplay only takes two people Jodah. I remember the dialup days when only 2 to 4 people were on the BBS at a time and would have grand sessions of roleplay. Yes, it is fun to have larger groups and surrounding story and events, but it doesn't have to be that way. I think it is time for you to delve in and become the great roleplayer we all know you can be.  :D
New Worlds Ateraan
www.ateraan.com

Jodah

  • TMC Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 510
    • View Profile
Re: The state of "RPI" as a concept
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2018, 4:53 AM »
You wouldn't want me to roleplay, I'd just be the secret dark sympathizer that stabs everyone when they aren't looking while feigning friendship.

wackydude

  • New to TMC
  • *
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Re: The state of "RPI" as a concept
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2018, 9:21 AM »
Can someone explain to me how anyone has time to roleplay when there are mobs to kill, or how you roleplay when there aren't 50 people online?  Do you just talk to inanimate mobs the whole time?

There are a handful of roleplaying games with over a hundred unique players. Sindome, Armageddon, and Arx immediately come to mind. No need to talk to an imaginary friend when there are plenty of players to interact with.

ArrestedGoat

  • New to TMC
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: The state of "RPI" as a concept
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2018, 5:35 PM »
Thank you for the original definition. I think Armageddon isn't an RPI then, due to guideline #3.

Armageddon barely counts as roleplay enforced, let alone RPI...

The arrogant and delusional community basically does whatever it wants with the help of the spiteful, favorites-playing enablers on staff. There are characters who use text-speak in their character dialogue in game. Keep in mind that this is a setting where technology hasn't advanced past sharpening pieces of bone for 99% of the people in it. And yet text-speak is running rampant.

Maybe we should have a list of games that actually count as RPI anymore... I would say it's down to Harshlands, Stillborn, Shadows of Isildur, and Inquisition Legacy.

jtaylor

  • New to TMC
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: The state of "RPI" as a concept
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2018, 6:34 PM »
I think the problem with RPI is not so much the category itself, but the games that fit into it. Let's face it: there's a big MUD or two that get a deservedly bad reputation in mudding circles, and they belong in the RPI category, and frankly it makes the other RPIs look bad. I look toward other kinds of MU*s to get my roleplay fix nowadays.

Ateraan

  • TMC Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 801
  • New Worlds Ateraan
    • View Profile
    • New Worlds Ateraan
Re: The state of "RPI" as a concept
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2018, 1:10 AM »
You wouldn't want me to roleplay, I'd just be the secret dark sympathizer that stabs everyone when they aren't looking while feigning friendship.
Ha, there's already two of those, think of something more dynamic and original.  8)
New Worlds Ateraan
www.ateraan.com

Ateraan

  • TMC Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 801
  • New Worlds Ateraan
    • View Profile
    • New Worlds Ateraan
Re: The state of "RPI" as a concept
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2018, 1:14 AM »
Armageddon barely counts as roleplay enforced, let alone RPI...

The arrogant and delusional community basically does whatever it wants with the help of the spiteful, favorites-playing enablers on staff. There are characters who use text-speak in their character dialogue in game. Keep in mind that this is a setting where technology hasn't advanced past sharpening pieces of bone for 99% of the people in it. And yet text-speak is running rampant.

Maybe we should have a list of games that actually count as RPI anymore... I would say it's down to Harshlands, Stillborn, Shadows of Isildur, and Inquisition Legacy.
All of those listed are pretty good roleplaying games regardless of the term RPI.

I will respectfully disagree with you on Armeggedon. While I haven't played it in years, I've a few friends who do and they seem to count it as enjoyable roleplay.
New Worlds Ateraan
www.ateraan.com

jtaylor

  • New to TMC
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: The state of "RPI" as a concept
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2018, 8:41 AM »
I mean, obviously the 170* people or so who log into Armageddon regularly find the game fun, otherwise they wouldn't log in... but let's not pretend that the game doesn't give RPIs a bad overall reputation. I've seen a good chunk of games open up, call themselves RPIs, and flop because they either cannot compete with Armageddon even though they offer more, or because they get associated with it.

*Number attained by subtracting new accounts and staff alts from last week's unique login count.

harroghty

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 76
    • View Profile
Re: The state of "RPI" as a concept
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2018, 10:30 AM »
I believe that an OOC command is useful, even in RPI (or role playing, however we want to call it). For example, Forgotten Kingdoms does not have a global OOC chat channel, but we do have the OSAY (OOC speech) and OTELL (OOC long-range communication between two players) commands in order to facilitate role playing. As others have said, while total immersion is admirable it can be sometimes fraught with issues that might be best sorted out briefly OOC in the same way that we might turn to a DM at a tabletop game for some brief clarification before going on.
"Deeds are the real man's true joy" - Albert Kesselring

http://www.forgottenkingdoms.org

BarsookArm

  • New to TMC
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: The state of "RPI" as a concept
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2018, 1:27 PM »
I mean, obviously the 170* people or so who log into Armageddon regularly find the game fun, otherwise they wouldn't log in... but let's not pretend that the game doesn't give RPIs a bad overall reputation. I've seen a good chunk of games open up, call themselves RPIs, and flop because they either cannot compete with Armageddon even though they offer more, or because they get associated with it.

*Number attained by subtracting new accounts and staff alts from last week's unique login count.

This post is harsh but it is unfortunate true... look around and you see Arma gets a bad reputation. Not everyone can be wrong or lying. It's too bad though since Arma has a lot of promise.

Zerero

  • New to TMC
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: The state of "RPI" as a concept
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2018, 9:11 PM »
Don't have time for an eloquent post, but my thoughts.

The RPI tag has been defined and then argued over numerous time as any super niche aspect of a genre will be. I will say that a brand/tag only has as much value as the games that choose to represent it. In recent years RPIs have lost playerbase because of staff abuses and lack of change to their approach. Now people who used to be staunch RPI supporters play games like Arx and Haven just to get their RP fix / enjoyment. It is possible the "intensive" portion of RPIs led to toxic staffing decisions and outlooks because there was some innate need to suppress the OOC aspects of a game. Enjoyment of a game is an OOC aspect and sharing that enjoyment is an OOC aspect but RPIs are supposed to keep their players sequestered and IC as much as possible when thinking of or engaging with the game. This leads to dissatisfaction amongst the players and eventually you have something like Armageddon. I only cite Armageddon because it has its own alternate board and multiple threads on Mudconnector showing the kind of venting/peak dissatisfaction that occurs within the RPI genre.

You could argue that RPIs became regressive to the genre. I think there is something to be said for not having OOC considerations within your game but keeping it on the website/elsewhere so people can log in for a pure IC experience and then engage in their OOC enjoyment outside the text window.

Good post, I can relate.

Anyone who's read my posts here or on r/MUD knows what my problem with Armageddon specifically is already, so I'm not going to digress into that, even if Arm is probably the biggest example of an RPI there is. I will speak about RPIs in general, with the caveat that most of my experience with RPIs has been with Armageddon.

The biggest problem with the RPI genre, in my view, is that RPIs are too immersive, and ultimately, addictive.

Yes, a roleplaying game can be too immersive. When I staffed Armageddon, I was intensely dismayed to learn that I was helping run a game that some people spent their entire day on, roleplaying. For some staff in some games, this might be a point of pride, and I can easily see how. After all, if someone spends 16 hours a day logged into your game and actively playing, that means your game is awesome, right?

Well, instead of resting on those imagined laurels, observing that behavior caused me to start to study addiction, and particularly gaming addiction, and I learned more about escapism and its effects. I learned that people who felt that their lives had little to no meaning often sought some semblance of meaning in games. I learned that this often affected people in school, who are still preparing for a career and a future life but are itching to make an impact on something /right now/. And then I looked back at Armageddon, and saw a not-insignificant amount of players spending most or all of their waking hours on the game.

I had anticipated that these players were most likely to take negative IC matters personally, and this often was the case. But compared to other problems, this was not nearly the biggest one. Upon joining staff I had become aware of past situations where players obsessed with the game feigned disability to attempt to gain characters with a strong advantage in the game, used their in-game time to stalk other players, or even disrupted Armageddon's "competitor" games through nefarious means only to go on to pen apology letters in blood.

The few times that players announced that they would be leaving Arm in order to live their lives, I was gleeful. But in Armageddon particularly, there was often doubt on all levels of the community that departing players would stay gone. The "CRACKAGEDDON" meme developed as a response to departing players making a return, often in as little as a few days. And a cursory inspection of the forum shows me that most of the players that the game bid farewell to on the best of terms are now back. I hope they are not addicted, but I know the likelihood of that.

The pursuit of total immersion is self-defeating. If I was designing an online roleplaying-enforced game in 2018, I would at the very least:
  • Have in-game, worldwide OOC channels
  • Have emotes/poses/@emits/etc always be in the third person, so that the player always sees their character's name rather than "you" or "your"
  • Have systems that promote casual play, such as an action point or energy system, or an EXP boost for offline time system, so that there isn't a need to play all day

I think anything less than that is irresponsible, and you may as well be injecting heroin into your players' veins. I wish I was joking.

Yeah, great post. I've always been a staunch RPI supporter and I agree - they are (very) addictive and they are by far the most immersive RP experience that I've ever had. It's a double edged sword. I want the RPI experience, but I can't afford to return to the RPI lifestyle, where you have to put in hours and hours of gameplay every day to stay relevant and have a blast while doing so (but at what cost irl?). Unfortunately, despite many attempts, I can't stand the environments of non-RPI muds. I'm a grinch. The OOC channels always rub me the wrong way, the roleplay is always a grade lower and I never feel immersed.

Alas, as RPIs continue to die off, it seems the choice is being made for me...