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Author Topic: Thread Locked  (Read 4900 times)

Ateraan

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Thread Locked
« on: April 23, 2018, 1:24 AM »
I have found quite often I see a thread I would have liked to comment on and the old "this Thread is Locked" pops up and I'm sad.

Do we really need to lock threads so quickly because a couple of members post a few jabs at each other?

I guess I'm just not that sensitive to such things. Does anyone else feel like threads are locked too quickly or do you think it has been moderated at a good pace?

Perhaps there is a way to personally lock one or two people from a thread and let the thread continue? I doubt that is a coded feature of the forums but it would help.

Just my observation. What are your thoughts?
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Jeshin OR

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Re: Thread Locked
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2018, 1:42 AM »
I am unsure how TMC handles user issues vs thread issues. Normally I wouldn't lock a thread but would instead warn users about repeated back and forth that can easily be handled in PMs between them and outside of a thread and then implement temporary suspensions for continued infractions. Not bans. But that's just my preference.

Darkozx

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Re: Thread Locked
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2018, 2:34 AM »
But if you PM someone, it's considered harassing them...
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Jeshin OR

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Re: Thread Locked
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2018, 2:46 AM »
I am pretty sure you can block someone from being able to PM you. Like it's a pretty common feature across forum boards right? So if the issue is two people carrying on a back and forth which derails threads than asking them to take it to PMs works because if one of them doesn't want to continue the conversation via PMs they can just block the other?

Jodah

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Re: Thread Locked
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2018, 3:25 AM »
The locking is getting ridiculous.  The minute there's a disagreement it gets locked.  It stifles thought and really shuts down communication.  This is snowflakeconnect.

Molly

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Re: Thread Locked
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2018, 4:03 AM »
I am pretty sure you can block someone from being able to PM you. Like it's a pretty common feature across forum boards right? So if the issue is two people carrying on a back and forth which derails threads than asking them to take it to PMs works because if one of them doesn't want to continue the conversation via PMs they can just block the other?

I'm not keen on locking or vaulting threads myself, since discussions are what keeps a Forum going.
But when a discussion degenerates into two or three posters throwing jabs ar one another, while using language that will most likely offend the majority of other posters, the original subject is more or less dead already.

The standard action from the Moderators in those cases is to first advise the offenders to take their quarrel to personal messages. But in the last thread that was locked, that is exactly what one of the quarrellers did. Whereupon his counterpart chose to copy this private message into the thread, thereby exposing the offending language to everybody else.

As Moderators we have to draw the line somewhere, or the posts will spin out of control again, like they have too many times before. Exactly where we draw that line, may be a bit individual, or depend on who happens to be on line first. But we all do have a line, when we feel that enough is enough - or rather too much.

I agree with Jeshin on this. If you cannot stand another poster, at least block him/her from messaging you, if you cannot bring yourself into totally ignoring everything that he/she posts.

And my advise to those who would have wanted to continue the  blocked subject; why not just start a new thread on the same subject?
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Jodah

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Re: Thread Locked
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2018, 4:14 AM »
Blocking is super effective.  The same people tell me over and over I'm blocked every single time I post.

nullscan

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Re: Thread Locked
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2018, 1:33 PM »
I am pretty sure you can block someone from being able to PM you. Like it's a pretty common feature across forum boards right? So if the issue is two people carrying on a back and forth which derails threads than asking them to take it to PMs works because if one of them doesn't want to continue the conversation via PMs they can just block the other?

I'm not keen on locking or vaulting threads myself, since discussions are what keeps a Forum going.
But when a discussion degenerates into two or three posters throwing jabs ar one another, while using language that will most likely offend the majority of other posters, the original subject is more or less dead already.

The standard action from the Moderators in those cases is to first advise the offenders to take their quarrel to personal messages. But in the last thread that was locked, that is exactly what one of the quarrellers did. Whereupon his counterpart chose to copy this private message into the thread, thereby exposing the offending language to everybody else.

As Moderators we have to draw the line somewhere, or the posts will spin out of control again, like they have too many times before. Exactly where we draw that line, may be a bit individual, or depend on who happens to be on line first. But we all do have a line, when we feel that enough is enough - or rather too much.

I agree with Jeshin on this. If you cannot stand another poster, at least block him/her from messaging you, if you cannot bring yourself into totally ignoring everything that he/she posts.

And my advise to those who would have wanted to continue the  blocked subject; why not just start a new thread on the same subject?

The problem here isn't fixable by ignore.

Jeshin_OR has previously PM'd me in response to a Forum Thread post I made.  There was no problem here, because JO was asking a specific question (and I suspect he was trying to make a more specific point at the same time), and he wasn't abusive about it, and it was actually appropriate to make that remark in Private rather than Public.  He wasn't smarmy or pissy.  The two of us were in total disagreement in a public thread (and it was very much a matter of opinion, not fact, that we diverged on), but he acted like an adult both in his choice to PM me and in the content of that PM.

The first PM I ever received from Darkoxz was him continuing to be abusive/trolling after the Forum Moderators had already taken action in a thread, therefore he was not an adult about the choice or content of his PM since he was just continuing a melodramatic line of BS and was deliberately and knowingly doing so in such a way as to evade administrative action.  What pissed him off is that after a thread was brought back from a couple of months of being dead and buried, and a little over a dozen posts were made as to whether it was thread necromancy or not, I quoted one of D's posts (even though I wasn't talking specifically to him, just addressing his remarks), and he pitched a titty fitty on the thread about it.  In the end the Forum Moderators had pruned the thread, removing all the posts from before mine including the one I quoted and then removing all the posts that followed mine, including a couple of my one-liner responses to the unnecessarily dramatic backlash.  D posted into the pruned thread, and a few hours later the Mods removed that new attempt to troll in the thread, so then D proceeded to re-post the same kind of trolling BS into my PMs.  I reported this to admins via the link attached to the message, but pretty obviously the Forum Mods didn't even see fit to give him a talking to for evading administrative action and harassing another user who wasn't any more interested in continuing the discussion than everyone else on TMC would be in reading it. 

In that first incident, the disagreement between me and D wasn't even material to the thread topic - we were in total agreement that Net Neutrality should not have been repealed, but we disagreed as to whether the topic of its repeal was any longer relevant 2-5 weeks after Real World events had rendered the topic obsolete by verifying that Net Neutrality would no longer be a thing in the USA and there was nothing voters could do about it anymore.  So how do you not classify his behavior here as plain harassment and harassment for no reason other than to be abusive and being abusive just for the sake of being abusive?

Subsequently, D has posted a significant amount of disinformation and I responded to it the same way I always do:  With correction.  Not for his benefit but for the benefit of anyone who reads it who (may have their perceptions significantly influenced by it because they) may not know any better before reading it.

The second time D PM'd me it was for absolutely no other reason than to spew the words [sic] "****** ****** ******" without spewing them onto the Forum Proper.

Since Ateraan created this thread, D has PM'd me 3 more times (in response to the fact that Moderators locked the thread where he wanted to troll and in spite of the fact that I haven't responded to him at all) stating that I believe in "a false God" and that I should report him to "the federal code guys" and lastly:

Final message, do you really think I give a flying **** about what the interwebs thinks? Most of you are fake people who are not important to me at all. I have no feelings or anything involving internet strangers. Why should I is the real question? Do you matter? Nope. Do I matter to you? Nope. So, why do you let what I say bother you so much? Do we need to hug it out or something? Or do I need to follow a strict set of nullscan guidelines on how to act on the internet. Now let's get to the kid issue, I will teach my children to hate people like you. Yup, I said it. My children will be taught and trained how to deal with petty interwebs people like you and I'll teach them to fight back with everything they got. Take it as it is or block me. I am not your friend and I refuse to do anything to make you happy.

About an hour after he sent these 3 PMs to me, he posted to this thread sarcastically remarking that PMing someone at all would be considered "Harassing" them.

And again, Darkozx is sending me PMs to continue a line of melodramatic bull**** from a thread that was locked by Moderators.  How can you expect to be taken seriously as a community and not take "evasion of administrative action to continue harassing someone" seriously?

Do I know how to set him on ignore?  No.  Should I have to use the Ignore feature when this guy behaves exactly the same way in public threads as he does via Private Message?  Abso-****ing-lutely NOT.  This clown has less than no business on a webforum.  Especially not a webforum like TMC that represents an entire hobby and everyone in it, like MUing.  The Ignore feature is built-in to Forum engines to block spam advertising, not to block some heinous twit whose behavior is universally disruptive and abusive of that Forum and its users and legitimate advertisers in the first place.  That's what account and IP-by-firewall bans/lockouts are for.

If the TMC Forum Mods had done their job and dealt with this clown the first time he harassed me over a message he didn't even really disagree with, I wouldn't have had to post his PM stalkery back to the same public thread that inspired him to do it.  Which I'm being forced to do again, thanks to this thread.

Edit:  Of course the real problem isn't this thread.  The purpose of this thread is to question the administrative logic behind locking whole threads because of bad behavior on the part of one or two users.  The source of the real problem is that several of the remarks in this thread imply that by being the victim of an abusive user who sees administrative threadlocks as justification to harass other users in Private Messages, and refusing to be victimized either by that abusive user or by staff's unwillingness to take appropriate action against that abuser, the victim is somehow to blame.  Whether that implication was deliberate or not, the real problem is that the abuser took it as tacit approval of his behavior and decided to ramp up his stalking campaign against the victim.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 4:17 PM by nullscan »

Bronn

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Re: Thread Locked
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2018, 2:22 PM »
Honestly, I vastly prefer when people post disgusting or offensive things and they have a signature linking to their game or website. It really helps serve the site's intended purpose of helping MUD players find a good game to enjoy, at least through process of elimination.

Tijer

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Re: Thread Locked
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2018, 2:37 PM »
tbh a simple solution is to ignore such a user, they soon end up getting bored when no one responds to them...

There had been several post reports on the thread that was locked, and various posts, so to stop the continued harrasment, i locked it.  Deleting the reported posts would destroy the flow of the thread.
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Darkozx

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Re: Thread Locked
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2018, 3:05 PM »
I responded in PMs due to the thread where you quoted what I said and replied to it was locked. It is what it is.
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IFamiINIe

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Re: Thread Locked
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2018, 4:15 PM »
Mods can't hold me back! Fight the system!
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nullscan

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Re: Thread Locked
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2018, 4:27 PM »
tbh a simple solution is to ignore such a user, they soon end up getting bored when no one responds to them...

There had been several post reports on the thread that was locked, and various posts, so to stop the continued harrasment, i locked it.  Deleting the reported posts would destroy the flow of the thread.

Speaking as someone who has been a long-time forum user, a forums moderator, and a moderator/administrator on a variety of types of public/social mediums, I can say with absolute confidence that an individual victim ignoring trash like Darkozx will accomplish nothing except:

* He'll create a new account through which to continue his harassment.

* He may or may not be bright enough to use a proxy service to prevent Forum Moderators from being able to determine that these alternate accounts are actually the same individual.  If he's not that bright, then he'll just make some witless excuse such as that "his roommate" or "his wife" did it because he was whining at the dinner table (and subsequent messages to those users will of course corroborate his story).

* He'll eventually get allies from known troll sources like 4chan, WORA, reddit, et al to come to TMC for the sole and explicit purpose of continuing the harassment without using proxies and therefore with no way to even accuse him of his behavior.

By the time it reaches the 3rd stage of escalation, the whole Forum and even the server it's hosted on will be at risk if and when Moderators finally open their eyes to the scale of the problem and start banning him and his alternates.

So while that solution is simple for you it's going to be extremely short-lived both in being a solution at all and in not affecting you and everyone else who uses TMC.

And in all events, he's going to keep doing it to other people.  You're going to lose legitimate users because of his behavior, and in reality you already have.  Look up the statistics on how many people actually report crimes like stalking or bullying or physical assaults in Real Life.  Now multiply the numbers by 3 for every user on the forums and you'll have some idea how many people never bothered to create accounts because of skimming threads and seeing how some users are allowed to behave consistently, or hearing reports of how they were treated by other users here.

As a legitimate real-world reference point just for TMC:  There used to be absolutely only 2 go-tos for MUSHers looking to find new games.  The primary was TMC and the secondary was Online Gaming Resource (OGR), a MUX.  At the present time there are an alarming number of MUSHers who claim 5+ years' MUing experience who have never heard of either one.  At least with OGR we know that it was taken over by WORA-users who changed the name and quit doing any form of behavior-moderation or even "outdated/offline game listings" pruning at all.  How do you explain TMC then?  Well, up to 3 weeks after I submitted a game listing for a friend, I still hadn't heard back from moderators at all.  Now this.  If you're just bored out of your mind with being Forum Mods, just take the site offline altogether.  Otherwise you're actively trying to destroy the hobby of MUing.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 4:43 PM by nullscan »

Jeshin OR

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Re: Thread Locked
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2018, 4:48 PM »
Minor note but the MODs of this forum don't control the listing portion of the site. It's two different groups and in fact I believe only 1-2 people even control/administrate the reviews/listings portion of the site.

Darkozx

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Re: Thread Locked
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2018, 4:57 PM »
To set the record straight, when I get banned, I do not attempt to post until I am unbanned. I have never made another account on TMC and I don't intend to. In the past when I was banned I did not attempt to contact anyone on TMC nor did I "stalk" them. I also do not have a following or crew on reddit, 4chan or any other website that will do my beckoning. Stop acting like you're a bigger victim than you already are. If you block me, you will never have a reason to "view" my posts or get upset by them. You act as if I'm a noob or something but I've been doing this just as long as you if not longer. A simple solution is to choose not to respond to my posts on threads that are not calling you out directly or involving you besides being open to the public eye. Viewing something does not require a response, that is your choice.
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