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Author Topic: Rent vs Taxes  (Read 13164 times)

ykiu

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Re: Rent vs Taxes
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2018, 11:58 PM »
I never found it that difficult to recite a recall scroll, certainly not when anywhere close to starting out and not being able to stray anywhere far from the main inn.

Darkozx

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Re: Rent vs Taxes
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2018, 12:27 AM »
I never found it difficult as a coder to disable rent. That's much easier than torturing your playerbase because you're a bad MUD owner who has no clue wtf is enjoyable.
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Hades_Kane

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Re: Rent vs Taxes
« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2018, 4:32 PM »
I never found it difficult as a coder to disable rent. That's much easier than torturing your playerbase because you're a bad MUD owner who has no clue wtf is enjoyable.

Right?

Besides, what if you are in a no recall zone?

What if you spent an hour trekking to a specific location and in the middle of something, only for something urgent to pop up and you now have to consider whether to undo an hours worth of traveling/mob killing by recalling to your quit/eq saving spot, or neglect whatever it is that has popped up?

How many games with rent actively LOSE potential players or even fail to see dedicated players connect and play because they might only have 10 minutes of play-time available at the time and choose NOT to login because the need to quit in certain areas means that the small amount of burst time they might have to play means they can't actually get anything done?

But hey, keep on renting, those of us who don't have it will be happy to welcome the players you lose because of it.
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Jodah

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Re: Rent vs Taxes
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2018, 3:18 AM »
My most favorite mud in the world has a rent system, and guess what?  I refuse to play it, I don't care how good the game is.  Now it's a ghost town.  Basically rent says all that hard work you spent making in game money?   Well throw it all away just to keep your equipment.  You finally got that "sword of uber power"!  Awesome!  Oh I'm sorry, it will take you 50,000$ a day just to keep it in rent, you now have to play 4 hours a day just to make enough money to keep the sword of uber power, this is not money you can keep.  No thank you.

Darkozx

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Re: Rent vs Taxes
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2018, 12:45 PM »
Just last night I had one of my players talk about trying out another MUD that sadly used rent. The player tried the MUD out for a while, got some equipment and help from the players but he had to log off soon. Being new to the MUD and the concept of rent, he didn't really understand it, so his gear dropped at the ground. No big deal since he said the players were friendly here and probably would give it back. Well about 10 minutes later there was a reboot which purged his loot, yay! He signed back on without any equipment and came back to DBE. Rent makes you lose players, disable it!
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Istarian

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Re: Rent vs Taxes
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2018, 1:16 PM »
It's pretty hilarious how many of the people here are bashing a system which was a deliberate choice  and a practical solution for the time. Acting like the developer was an idiot is both ignorant and unfair. If we were talking about Diku or many other early games that likely happened at a time when people may still have been paying by the minute or the hour for online games... So, very different world.

That said, I can agree that rent as I've heard it described seems detrimental to a game today. There is perhaps an argument about the laziness/stupidity of someone running game who refuses to modify/disable/remove it from their game.

TL;DR A means of economic regulation and shaping player behavior is a necessary evil. It's probably of minimal use with less than 50 players...

Nevertheless all games must use various systems to rein in the virtual economy. Players are rarely happy about such things even when they are necessary, in part because it mimics the real world they are sometimes trying to escape. As lovely as it sounds allowing gold and items to pile up infinitely and be stored without any cost/inconvenience at all could be a problem at least for a more modern MMO. It may not be a technical issue, but it could interfere with currency value (inflation?) and item value. Who cares if you get a super awesome sword/gun/etc as a reward if there are thousands or millions of them in circulation. Nobody wants it. Sure maybe you can break it down for parts, XP, whatever; that doesn't /fix/ the problem though it just screws with people's heads. It's also potentially immersion breaking since it makes the supposed value a lie. There are other ways to handle that, but people really are fond of loot.

Personally I have nothing against a fixed amount of inventory space and beyond that you have to trade cost/inconvenience etc for additional storage space. Whether that's some kind of rented storage (house, guild, etc), a need to obtain external storage/portage (i.e. a wagon with some chests in it that you care around), a locality restriction on where you can access it, or just the reality that you must make decisions about what to keep. There's also no reason not to have safe/unsafe areas in terms of theft if it makes sense in the context of the game -- that is sleeping in an inn/house/guild/? confers theft protection (limited or inviolable) and sleeping on the road increases the chances that someone will just steal your crap while you "sleep"/loiter.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 1:19 PM by Istarian »

Hades_Kane

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Re: Rent vs Taxes
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2018, 4:34 PM »
People aren't bashing the system as it was at the time, people are bashing the system being maintained in today's computing environment.

It was a practical solution for the limited resources of the day, now it's an annoying barrier for play and enjoyment, and IF used for "economics" its a lazy, poorly designed money sink.
-Diablos
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Jodah

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Re: Rent vs Taxes
« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2018, 6:25 AM »
TL;DR A means of economic regulation and shaping player behavior is a necessary evil. It's probably of minimal use with less than 50 players...

Nevertheless all games must use various systems to rein in the virtual economy.

A game designer can regulate an economy and prevent inflation by implementing money sinks that are fun.  A game designer can also regulate an economy and implement money sinks that are not fun.  Rent is not fun.  You tell me who the better game designer is.

The argument that rent keeps items rare and thus desirable because people make mistakes and forget about rent is another game flaw, not a game feature.  It relies on people's mistakes for the game to run, think about the absurdity of that notion in a modern game.  An item's rarity should not be regulated based on who is most on vacation or who accidentally let rent lapse and thus loses all their items, allowing the item to repop in the world.  This has active players rooting for people to stay away from the game, or even worse, has them rooting for player file deletions to make items repop, the kiss of death for a mud.  The argument that rent keeps items rare is flawed because I can show you plenty of muds with rare items that have done away with rent.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 6:27 AM by Jodah »