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Author Topic: Do casual muds exist? insane MUD difficulty  (Read 8565 times)

Epilogy

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Re: Do casual muds exist? insane MUD difficulty
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2018, 5:32 PM »
I find empty servers to be the most casual games. No one around to bother you, and yeah, it is a single player experience. But there's games out there still running holding a lot of different people's work. You could see a hundred different areas that you'll never see anywhere else.

Older ROM games were often what I'd relate to as fun games. There are fun servers for different games, where the map objective was centered around something funny, or silly instead of the creator's intent. These games are/were pretty casual in terms of difficulty, time investment, etc. with the main draw of them being a social atmosphere while everyone did their own thing.

Darkozx

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Re: Do casual muds exist? insane MUD difficulty
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2018, 4:12 AM »
Old school Godwars were casual you could say. You got strong fast, pked early on and made multiple characters. I'm sure some are still open somewhere.
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Tijer

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Re: Do casual muds exist? insane MUD difficulty
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2018, 8:33 AM »
There were some really super casual GodWars muds back in the day, the Utopia series of muds where you'd connect maxxed, and be able to pkill pretty much straight away!

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Krono_

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Re: Do casual muds exist? insane MUD difficulty
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2018, 2:31 AM »
In my opinion, the issue with 'casual' muds is that a large amount of the playerbase gets bored of them very quickly. Muds are in a very unique place right now: I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I would be very surprised if muds saw any significant amount of new growth per year anymore. What I mean by that is, the only people still playing muds are people who have played muds for years. There are of course going to be outliers, some people might stumble across the idea of a mud and decide to check some out, but I would wager pretty highly that 95% of the playerbase of muds right now has been playing them for 10+ years. If you want a mud to last that long, then you have to do one of two things:

A) Wipe your players frequently. If you 'reset' ala Diablo 3 seasonal leaderboards, then players might always have something new to strive for even if they've already 'finished' a casual mud that doesn't take nearly as long to 'finish'. The downside of this is, you are going to have to be pumping out frequent content additions or balance updates to draw people into the idea of leveling a character all over again.

B) Make progression take longer. This is the 'simple' route, and the one most muds take. Obviously this has to be supported with a solid foundation of gameplay, but it's the most logical route to keeping a playerbase interested in the long term. This presents the primary issue Jodah brought up; it takes ages to progress yourself, and the chances of you catching up to people who started months before you is almost non-existent.

I wouldn't necessarily say that this is an issue of mud difficulty though, and more of the medium as a whole having a harder time keeping attention. In general, there are no flashy graphics attached -- the attention grabbing is directly related to the level of detail involved in the mud, which can be controlled by its creators, but it also depends on the imagination of the players involved. Granted, most people still playing muds likely have a strong imagination, otherwise they wouldn't still be playing.

I ran a little long here, but my main point is that I suspect 'casual' muds have existed in many flavors over the years... But they burn bright and die fast. There is some demand for them, I'm sure, but if you max out in 30 days on a mud, why would you keep playing it? You could make new characters but you know you'll be mostly experiencing the same thing, so the replayability is not really there.

Epilogy

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Re: Do casual muds exist? insane MUD difficulty
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2018, 3:52 PM »
I suspect 'casual' muds have existed in many flavors over the years... But they burn bright and die fast.

This isn't really true. More often there was no one competent to replace the original owners, so whatever was inherited, if anything, was done so by someone who was often a player, and when you put a player into the place of the big boss.... well...


Tijer

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Re: Do casual muds exist? insane MUD difficulty
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2018, 5:01 PM »
... You are gonna end up with no end of trouble!  Players are notoriously bad coders, specially when its in regards to their favourite class, they will up and up and up stuff, to make the class more balanced, but it actually makes the class over powered.  They have no idea on the actual design of the MUD, and no idea what balance is, and how its achieved!
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Sarag

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Re: Do casual muds exist? insane MUD difficulty
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2018, 10:25 AM »
B) Make progression take longer. This is the 'simple' route, and the one most muds take. Obviously this has to be supported with a solid foundation of gameplay, but it's the most logical route to keeping a playerbase interested in the long term. This presents the primary issue Jodah brought up; it takes ages to progress yourself, and the chances of you catching up to people who started months before you is almost non-existent.

Basically what I have seen long-time MUDs do is to add more high-end content. Say a MUD had a level limit of 100 originally, at some point there are tons of lvl100 characters. So the developers add 20 new levels and some new super-high level mobs and quests, and then the playerbase has something to do again.

In the 'times of yore' this wasn't seen as a problem as the MUDs had constant influx of new players. Players would hit max level and wizz, and go play as mortals in other MUDs. But nowadays the MUDs are concerned about keeping the old players, as getting new players isn't a given anymore.

This does mean that for up& coming player it is essentially impossible to achieve same power level than veteran players who have been grinding stuff and exp for 15-20 years.




Krono_

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Re: Do casual muds exist? insane MUD difficulty
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2018, 6:02 AM »
I used to play Dale's mud, Age of the Ancients 2, and they had a very nice version of the alternate advancement system from Everquest. Basically, once you hit max level (50 in 4 classes, because there was quad-classing), you began to earn experience points that instead awarded you AA points. They took a LOT of experience to obtain, so they were super late game grinds, but they gave you pretty crazy buffs. Direct increases to stats you could otherwise only increase to a certain point through learn points, special abilities, permanent buffs. It was a really cool system (Admittedly, I've never played Everquest, so it might be pretty much identical to EQ's AA system, but I thought it was a pretty nice idea). I've tried to take some of those ideas to heart in terms of further advancement, and I think we've implemented some ideas pretty well in DBE. We have a remort system now, and even though we have a max level, if you attain it you can still continue to grow your stats even if you're not gaining direct levels.

Ateraan

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Re: Do casual muds exist? insane MUD difficulty
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2018, 12:50 PM »
In the 'times of yore' this wasn't seen as a problem as the MUDs had constant influx of new players. Players would hit max level and wizz, and go play as mortals in other MUDs. But nowadays the MUDs are concerned about keeping the old players, as getting new players isn't a given anymore.
This may only be partially true. We get an average of 3 to 5 players every week that are "brand new" to TORGs. The issue is how many can we keep or at least send on to other MUDs that might be more in their style. We are working on this concept.

I also don't use the term MUD as much anymore with our brand new players. They don't seem to understand what a Multi User Dungeon is but they fully understand what a Text Only Roleplaying Game is. This is off topic and really about educating a new generation of text gamers, so I won't go into detail here.

Suffice it to say that there is a place for casual MUDs and Difficult MUDs in my opinion but there is a learning curve.
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ZeKing

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Re: Do casual muds exist? insane MUD difficulty
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2018, 4:00 AM »
What is the best casual MUD out there? Give link please.

Ateraan

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Re: Do casual muds exist? insane MUD difficulty
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2018, 9:20 AM »
Casual? Materia Magika. Here's the link: http://www.materiamagica.com/
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IFamiINIe

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Re: Do casual muds exist? insane MUD difficulty
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2018, 9:54 AM »
B) Make progression take longer. This is the 'simple' route, and the one most muds take. Obviously this has to be supported with a solid foundation of gameplay, but it's the most logical route to keeping a playerbase interested in the long term. This presents the primary issue Jodah brought up; it takes ages to progress yourself, and the chances of you catching up to people who started months before you is almost non-existent.

Basically what I have seen long-time MUDs do is to add more high-end content. Say a MUD had a level limit of 100 originally, at some point there are tons of lvl100 characters. So the developers add 20 new levels and some new super-high level mobs and quests, and then the playerbase has something to do again.

In the 'times of yore' this wasn't seen as a problem as the MUDs had constant influx of new players. Players would hit max level and wizz, and go play as mortals in other MUDs. But nowadays the MUDs are concerned about keeping the old players, as getting new players isn't a given anymore.

This does mean that for up& coming player it is essentially impossible to achieve same power level than veteran players who have been grinding stuff and exp for 15-20 years.

I went the opposite direction. Less levels, less tiers, less level grinding. I've found that a lot of people just hate the grind. It's one of the least fun aspects of most games. They do it because they have to do it. This becomes more of a ritual they have to do than something they want to do.

This is not to say time sinks are not important to keep players sticky to the game. But, there are better time sinks to invest in that players like to do, say gathering resources to craft a item that you then spend time trying to sell to the player market. These are 3 separate systems working together to provide a player a variety of professions they can sink time into that also provides value to the game.

I also think that constantly moving the carrot further and further away or destroying that carrot every so often is bad. You are constantly making players who have not yet caught up feel further and further behind where when they do quit your game and come back, they feel like it's such a long uphill walk, they just don't even consider coming back anymore.

This is not always the case though. Plenty of people think it's fun to constantly grind 500 levels. I work with one for example. Does nothing but play Recoy online, grinding unlimited levels and training on NPC's to grind up training points on his abilities just so he can PvP every night. 90% of what he does in his session is work, the other 10% is fun. Yet, he still plays.

But for players like me. Most of the reason I can't find a MUD to play is because they are all boring grind fests with little to no documentation and completely dull content. Having a simple entry to max level and easier path to success to where I can have fun seems much more attractive than coming home from work to do more work. And to me, that's what it means to be casual. I log on, have fun for a short period of time, I log off for a few days, and can come back feeling that I have not lost my character in the race.

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Jodah

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Re: Do casual muds exist? insane MUD difficulty
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2018, 5:16 AM »
None of these muds are truly casual haha.  I guess that's the nature of the platform, grind until max level.