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Author Topic: Ateraan: A Constructive List of Immoral Behavior  (Read 6270 times)

shabang50

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Re: Ateraan: A Constructive List of Immoral Behavior
« Reply #105 on: January 24, 2018, 5:03 PM »
Jesus Christ!
you can spend FIVETEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS on a mud? i've been playing them since i was 15 (IRE games) and even those moneysuckers surely nobody could spend that much money on.

Edoras

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Re: Ateraan: A Constructive List of Immoral Behavior
« Reply #106 on: January 24, 2018, 11:32 PM »
Indeed you can and it pays off in spades too, provided you're willing to shell out at least $750 to a single character.

I'm not against Ateraan, or any mud, being pay-to-win. I'm against the fact that the intense mechanical advantages that donating large amounts provides to you are purposefully hidden behind the deceptive term 'roleplay rewards,' and only able to be viewed by those who have donated the necessary amount themselves, when they're blatantly mechanical advantages that are otherwise unattainable except through donating.  It's deception of players, plain and simple.

Teryel

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Re: Ateraan: A Constructive List of Immoral Behavior
« Reply #107 on: January 25, 2018, 12:06 AM »
Indeed you can and it pays off in spades too, provided you're willing to shell out at least $750 to a single character.

I'm not against Ateraan, or any mud, being pay-to-win. I'm against the fact that the intense mechanical advantages that donating large amounts provides to you are purposefully hidden behind the deceptive term 'roleplay rewards,' and only able to be viewed by those who have donated the necessary amount themselves, when they're blatantly mechanical advantages that are otherwise unattainable except through donating.  It's deception of players, plain and simple.

This. Despite Ateraan's claims, every word of this has been proven in these threads.

amrylin

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Re: Ateraan: A Constructive List of Immoral Behavior
« Reply #108 on: January 25, 2018, 7:24 AM »
Listen....I played Ateraan for a solid 2 or so years when I made a return to the hobby and I find every criticism of Andrew to be true. His conduct is typically childish, hence the way he disrupts his own players gameplay by complaining and recruiting them on the OOC channel to come here. Yeah there are heaps of logs throughout the years of people getting unwanted ERP advances, yeah the style of management is questionable at best.

Even just on a subjective level the narrative for world events was often laughable. This is the real player perspective. After months of seeing a 'Shining purple glow off in the distance' I was becoming jaded. The game itself is propped up by great people who are roleplaying in a weird approximation of a good setting to live in.....where no adventurer alive has ever forged a weapon themselves without a magical anvil and NPCs are the only real people who do stuff. It's impossible to be wounded or sick because Priests....The people who live in Ateraan must literally reconcile that they must murder the denizens of the continent in order to outfit themselves. And go on roleplaying as normal people 99% of the time.....the list goes on and on.

I am one of those fools who donated over $1000 dollars during my time there and I can attest both to the absurd level of benefit and the preferential treatment a player receives after having paid that much. Andrew has also designed a devilish system whereby the custom anvilled items can be copied ONCE ever....and if you die and lose those two copies you will need to drop another $100 to replace it. As for preferential treatment I got fed up one day with the perception that my good efforts were being ignored and I told staff," I DESERVE TO BE A THIEF GOD DAMNIT." And the next day I got paid attention to and became a thief. (A secret not secret class). I can't comment if these anecdotes have changes since I quit playing.

I think it would be one thing to play a while and become disillusioned by the immaculate skinner box that Ateraan managed to cobble together with, what I assume, are few coding skills and just enough volunteer help to make sense of the codebase since its inception however long ago. But it's the odd juxtaposition that the game strikes between that compulsive grinding and true, deep roleplay almost akin to the depth you see in MUSHes, a far cry from the 'TORG' read: MUD with enforced roleplay, since he decided to create his own acronym here.

If you are a new player and happen to read this what I want to impress upon you is this. You can have a lot of fun on Ateraan. You can make great friends and feel you're participating in some fun plots. And the more you learn about the world the more you will be jaded. The more interaction with the staff that you have the more arbitrarily you will be held back. Because at least while I lived there, Ateraan was nothing but a sandbox for Andrew to play in and a convenient source of cash on the side.


Gamblejay

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Re: Ateraan: A Constructive List of Immoral Behavior
« Reply #109 on: January 25, 2018, 4:44 PM »
Jesus Christ!
you can spend FIVETEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS on a mud? i've been playing them since i was 15 (IRE games) and even those moneysuckers surely nobody could spend that much money on.

Sure, I've spent the same amounts on IRE, Dragonrealms, Gemstone and various others. I've seen people drop 10k in a single transaction on some of them. You'd be surprised on what a good MUD can make, they aren't a business with paid coders for nothing.



Indeed you can and it pays off in spades too, provided you're willing to shell out at least $750 to a single character.

I'm not against Ateraan, or any mud, being pay-to-win. I'm against the fact that the intense mechanical advantages that donating large amounts provides to you are purposefully hidden behind the deceptive term 'roleplay rewards,' and only able to be viewed by those who have donated the necessary amount themselves, when they're blatantly mechanical advantages that are otherwise unattainable except through donating.  It's deception of players, plain and simple.

The problem with this statement is its a half-truth once again, most likely because you've never played the game. The advantages that are gained are so minimal due to the way combat is set up. It doesn't matter if I am given an Extra 1-5 stats added to my score sheet due to the Emerald ring. At most i'll have a bit extra hp,sp and ep and do a smidgen more bit of damage on stat-based abilities/spells which are few and far between already. Most abilities/spells are highly skill based and reliant.

The difference would be saying Player A with an Emerald does 10 damage more than player B without one. I was decked out in full anvil gear and still got my ass kicked by players who had none. Because they knew more about the game and how to PvP better.

He calls them roleplay rewards because frankly thats what the focus is, if you look at the long list of things given 90% of it is all RP based. Special house items, status, NPCs who react differently to you. Its like comparing a commoner to a noble. Even the majority of the items in the Shadow Market are all RP based. So I don't believe it is deception at all, like I said. Even all the money I spent on the game did not make me a super player. The ones who surpassed me are those who are highly focused on politics and roleplay, character power grew slowly compared to those two.

Now technically can they be called P2W? Sure its classified under items that can only be purchased, not accessible to the entire game without donating and which do and can have an impact on the characters growth and strength. But I think most people are grossly overestimating the benefits of such things. The game is most definitely RP focused and RP first.


Listen....I played Ateraan for a solid 2 or so years when I made a return to the hobby and I find every criticism of Andrew to be true. His conduct is typically childish, hence the way he disrupts his own players gameplay by complaining and recruiting them on the OOC channel to come here. Yeah there are heaps of logs throughout the years of people getting unwanted ERP advances, yeah the style of management is questionable at best.

Even just on a subjective level the narrative for world events was often laughable. This is the real player perspective. After months of seeing a 'Shining purple glow off in the distance' I was becoming jaded. The game itself is propped up by great people who are roleplaying in a weird approximation of a good setting to live in.....where no adventurer alive has ever forged a weapon themselves without a magical anvil and NPCs are the only real people who do stuff. It's impossible to be wounded or sick because Priests....The people who live in Ateraan must literally reconcile that they must murder the denizens of the continent in order to outfit themselves. And go on roleplaying as normal people 99% of the time.....the list goes on and on.

I am one of those fools who donated over $1000 dollars during my time there and I can attest both to the absurd level of benefit and the preferential treatment a player receives after having paid that much. Andrew has also designed a devilish system whereby the custom anvilled items can be copied ONCE ever....and if you die and lose those two copies you will need to drop another $100 to replace it. As for preferential treatment I got fed up one day with the perception that my good efforts were being ignored and I told staff," I DESERVE TO BE A THIEF GOD DAMNIT." And the next day I got paid attention to and became a thief. (A secret not secret class). I can't comment if these anecdotes have changes since I quit playing.

I think it would be one thing to play a while and become disillusioned by the immaculate skinner box that Ateraan managed to cobble together with, what I assume, are few coding skills and just enough volunteer help to make sense of the codebase since its inception however long ago. But it's the odd juxtaposition that the game strikes between that compulsive grinding and true, deep roleplay almost akin to the depth you see in MUSHes, a far cry from the 'TORG' read: MUD with enforced roleplay, since he decided to create his own acronym here.

If you are a new player and happen to read this what I want to impress upon you is this. You can have a lot of fun on Ateraan. You can make great friends and feel you're participating in some fun plots. And the more you learn about the world the more you will be jaded. The more interaction with the staff that you have the more arbitrarily you will be held back. Because at least while I lived there, Ateraan was nothing but a sandbox for Andrew to play in and a convenient source of cash on the side.



Agree to disagree, I've had a blast and interacted with staff maybe once or twice in my entire career on New Worlds. I'm not going to comment on your situation specifically because I have no idea who you are. I disagree with your views of the game I feel that the genre just wasn't your cup of tea, which is fine not everything is for everyone. You seem like someone who wants a very realistic, cross your T's and dot your i's and thats just not New Worlds.

I believe you need a bit more confidence in yourself if you believe that you were only given the opportunity because of how much you paid. Because I can tell you there are people who donated much much more than you and were turned away from the Thieves without a second glance. It was most likely because staff looked into some logs, looked at your roleplay and felt you deserved it. Or maybe you just complained a lot and they didn't want to deal with you anymore, easier to just give a child their sucker than keep trying to raise them right.

Not sure why everyone keeps knocking on Andrews coding skills, the man has one of the most successful MUDs in the community that isn't funded with an actual team of paid coders. Its quite easy to point the finger and make a snide comment when just as you were to assume I shall too, you have done absolutely nothing in comparison or if you have, you most likely failed and your MUD has joined the long graveyard list.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 5:13 PM by Gamblejay »

Hades_Kane

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Re: Ateraan: A Constructive List of Immoral Behavior
« Reply #110 on: January 27, 2018, 10:10 AM »
Did my best to let this breathe as long as I could, but after several posters began resorting to outright insulting one another and the circular arguments were just being lost in the noise, I'm splitting the last bit where it really started going off the rails, moving that to the vault, and locking both threads.

The split thread can be found here:
http://www.mudconnect.com/SMF/index.php?topic=81144.0

I would like to remind everyone of two features the forum software has:

1) IGNORE - if you are having such an issue with someone that you can't seem to refrain from having to insult or argue with everything they say then add them to your ignore list.  If you feel the need to "report to moderator" every other thing they post, then add them to your ignore list.  ESPECIALLY if your moderator reports seem to be being ignored, then they probably ARE being either ignored, moderator action is not deemed necessary in the instance, or it is being discussed.  In such cases, add the user to your IGNORE list.

2) If you want to direct arguments, insults, attacks, or just continually petulantly argue with another member of the forum, take it to personal messages.  The forum isn't nor should it be used as a means to air personal grievances or an axe to grind with another member of the community.  If you are hellbent on just arguing with someone rather than engaging in constructive debate, use the personal messaging system.

A note on a third feature of the forum... the report to moderator button.

I will begin treating repeated, continued, unproductive, and targeted reports to moderator as spam.  The button isn't to be used as a way to try to specifically target another member of the forum, it isn't a "tattletail" button to run crying to a moderator every time someone posts something you don't like.  Its intended to draw moderator attention to clear instances of the rules being broken in instances in which such things may not be being noticed.

In a thread in which a moderator has stated an intention to back off a bit and let breathe and has obviously been being watched?  The posts you are reporting are being seen.

The feature is not a private messaging system and shouldn't be used to "tell moderators to do their job", or to threaten moderators with an escalation of behavior.

This will all be considered abuse and moving forward dealt with accordingly.

Again, I highly encourage liberal use of the ignore feature, and taking arguments to private messages.
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