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Author Topic: Ateraan: A Constructive List of Immoral Behavior  (Read 8710 times)

Teryel

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Re: Ateraan: A Constructive List of Immoral Behavior
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2018, 9:56 PM »
Not sure what you are getting at. All these are roleplay enhancing things. Not regeneration in combat or the other things you are commenting on. This isn't World of Warcraft.


B) Definitely pay to win, then, if accurate.

A, +C-E) Pay for convenience.

Though, granted, a very steep convenience market on A. Increasing XP gained in a period is one thing. Increasing the amount of XP a person can gain in a day, relative to other players, is REALLY toeing the PTW line for me, and I'm not sure exactly which side I'd say it falls on.

However, this also counters Ateraan's claim about not inhibiting growth.

Ateraan, is it true? There's a limit to how much XP a person can gain in a day? What about the rest of Edoras' claims?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 10:19 PM by Teryel »

sazxe

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Re: Ateraan: A Constructive List of Immoral Behavior
« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2018, 10:54 PM »
I'm a former Ateraan player myself who quit (in good standing, I was actually well loved by multiple imm alts as well) and I mostly quit because of the game's abusive implementation of pay to win. It doesn't help that the people who have paid the most in to the "donation" system are disabled players on a fixed income. The scheme is specifically built to get as much money out of those people as possible. It's pretty disgusting.

Also, staff calling for Ateraan's players to brigade forum posts is pretty sad.

Edit: I'll also vouch that the information Edoras is providing is true.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 11:01 PM by sazxe »

sazxe

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Re: Ateraan: A Constructive List of Immoral Behavior
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2018, 11:07 PM »
Also, Ateraan's claims about multiplaying are also untrue. I was aware of multiple players running 3-4 characters at a time during my period on Ateraan. It's pretty much an open secret if you actually involve yourself in the game's OOC community. One of the players doing so was/is even an older man who is known for preying on younger female players and is someone we had to deal with for the same thing on another MUD.

ReverendRwn

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Re: Ateraan: A Constructive List of Immoral Behavior
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2018, 11:11 PM »
Not sure what you are getting at. All these are roleplay enhancing things. Not regeneration in combat or the other things you are commenting on. This isn't World of Warcraft.


B) Definitely pay to win, then, if accurate.

A, +C-E) Pay for convenience.

Though, granted, a very steep convenience market on A. Increasing XP gained in a period is one thing. Increasing the amount of XP a person can gain in a day, relative to other players, is REALLY toeing the PTW line for me, and I'm not sure exactly which side I'd say it falls on.

However, this also counters Ateraan's claim about not inhibiting growth.

Ateraan, is it true? There's a limit to how much XP a person can gain in a day? What about the rest of Edoras' claims?

As a player of the game I can vouch that Edoras' claims are True. those are just a sample of the things that are offered. All of the perks for the different monetary amounts posted previously are conveniences. However, a lot of the shadow market items themselves which require a corresponding signet level to even enter. Tokens that you get from donating can be traded to other players, usually sold for in game currency, can be used by any player regardless of donating, although only in the copper room IIRC. the other rooms are Brass, Silver and Gold, if you don't have the ring or higher you cannot even access them even if you had the tokens to purchase something inside. I will say though that the armor and weapons from the silver and gold anvils while convenient isn't game breaking. Yes certain armor pieces when anviled will give you back a small amount of your vital gauges (HP/SP/EP) randomly and it does enhance a normal piece of armor by using it as the template in which you are able to show off your creativity. I have had a full set of crafted gear and died just as easily to hard mobs as without it and some lesser mobs as well. It really only assists you in conserving your resources for combat I.E. Food and Potions. The caveat to it is these anviled armors cannot be modified in any other way and often anviling certain armors is worse than using a normal armor that has been fully modified through player available options such as oiling,spiking, enchanting etc. for instance anvil helmet type or shield armors cannot be spiked or strengthened in any way, and the anvil special ability they give only effects your vital gauges, so you sacrifice major offensive ability for slightly better than normal protective gear that returns a small portion of a vital mechanic. the anvil weapons are not really any different than any of the other available weapons in the game that have a special ability that goes off randomly in combat, the only real difference is that you get to design what it looks like and its corresponding flavor text that is displayed in combat.

Im not sure if the cap has increased since the wipe a few weeks ago, but pre wipe the xp cap was Approximatly 150,000 xp per day with an almost all day long cooldown time if you had the time you might be able to get in a second full meter in the evening if you filled it up early in the morning and were able to idle through the night, if for some reason you got disconnected or the game crashed the meter did not reduce unless you were logged in. Unless of course you had access to a Hearth, either yourself or a friends, or someone placed a Music Box in a common area that everyone could benefit from. the approximate 150k xp did not scale with level, it was a hard cap. so for instance pre wipe I needed 10 Million xp to reach my next level, and only able to get 150k or maybe 300k if i timed things just right. I wasn't even considered a High level, even though I was almost 2/3 through to level 30, the xp costs only get worse from there on up. I'm not complaining more than explaining, I didn't have a problem with any of this, as I play more casually than a lot of others do focusing more on trying to develop roleplay within the various aspects of the game. IMHO however, I have always felt that this system which was to aid in enforcing roleplay by limiting how fast one could advance did just the opposite, as most people tended to "BORG" out and then just sit around idling until they could do it again. Not to mention that if it was only Levels one was after and you never focused on your skils which also took huge amounts of experience when all totaled up. I know A lot of the time I had to choose, do I raise all my skills up by a single point or do advance in my level.

(Edit) the borg meter consists of 30 pips separated into 3 10 pip sections of green/yellow/red and is always trending towards zero. my approximation is based on personal experience never going father than the 10th yellow pip( 20 pips total). some people may have gained more or less depending on how fast or slow they were able to reach that point. Also to note that while the staff does often give roleplay bonuses for exceptional roleplay they are never commensurate to the length of time spent in those roleplay situations as opposed to grinding. Also if you did not constantly do some input less than ten minutes apart you could miss out as you were considered IDLE, so if you happened to be following along with someone given a sermon or other speech and were trying to be polite to everyone else in the room so they could too. you could very well end up missing the bonus given. when an hours worth of time can net you around 150k xp and/or a substantial amount of coin. getting maybe one or two staff bonus of 10k - 15k for one or more hours of dedicated roleplay does not entice players to want to spend the time doing such.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 11:31 PM by ReverendRwn »

Teryel

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Re: Ateraan: A Constructive List of Immoral Behavior
« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2018, 11:58 PM »
So, Epilogy's claim that advancement was inhibited for most players, but less so for ones that payed, is accurate, despite Ateraan claiming otherwise.

How pay to win or not that is is up for debate, but it's a model that Skyforge MMO uses, that gets it quite a few negative reviews.

Teryel

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Re: Ateraan: A Constructive List of Immoral Behavior
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2018, 11:59 PM »
At this point in time, I'm actually seeing more lies, deflections and avoidances coming from Ateraan than from Epilogy.

Ateraan

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Re: Ateraan: A Constructive List of Immoral Behavior
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2018, 12:16 AM »
I'm a former Ateraan player myself who quit (in good standing, I was actually well loved by multiple imm alts as well) and I mostly quit because of the game's abusive implementation of pay to win. It doesn't help that the people who have paid the most in to the "donation" system are disabled players on a fixed income. The scheme is specifically built to get as much money out of those people as possible. It's pretty disgusting.

Also, staff calling for Ateraan's players to brigade forum posts is pretty sad.

Edit: I'll also vouch that the information Edoras is providing is true.
Care to share some proof of who you were, who the staff members were, or any truth to your claims so that an alternative honest viewpoint can be given?

You also are claiming things that are coming from the new era which you were not part of so that is also suspect. I'm not saying you are a liar I just find your comments hard to believe. I know exactly who the staff thought were good and who were abusers of the system so even if you want to PM me on who you are so as not to out yourself I don't mind commenting on the player you were and your contribution to roleplay.

In other words, true critics don't hide in shadows. Surely if you don't play anymore you don't mind giving a little credence right?
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Ateraan

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Re: Ateraan: A Constructive List of Immoral Behavior
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2018, 12:23 AM »
Ateraan, is it true? There's a limit to how much XP a person can gain in a day? What about the rest of Edoras' claims?
Most of the claims are either false, partially false, or opinion. I will put it this way. Ateraan is a roleplaying game. You win by roleplaying (though there is no way to truly win you just can get ahead). That is the only way to truly get ahead in this game.

If you want to know the truth for yourself: PLAY the GAME.

I've found over 20 years that those who cheat, try to get around rules, abuse the system then get busted are normally the loudest critics around.

I would challenge every person like Edoras to sign their post with their character name. I can promise you there is a plethora of history on them being a problem with staff and administration.

You will note that those without issues who play fair who don't donate or do have little problems with Ateraan. Why?

Because our motto on NWA is this: You laugh, you cry, you hurl...New Worlds.

Try it to find out why.
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Ateraan

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Re: Ateraan: A Constructive List of Immoral Behavior
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2018, 12:35 AM »
I just saw the Greatest Showman and as I read through the naysayers, critics, and haters I am reminded of why I do what I do with these simple lines from the movie:

James Bennet, Critic: Does it bother you that everything you are selling is fake?

PT Barnum: Do the smiles seem fake?

The fact is folks, for whatever reason you are hating what is one of the greatest roleplaying experiences on the planet. The players are real, their roleplay is impressive, NWA gives an avenue for that roleplay that is just as impressive. Hate it, Love it, but in the end, the smiles and tears are not fake.
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Teryel

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Re: Ateraan: A Constructive List of Immoral Behavior
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2018, 12:37 AM »
You know, I was actually on the fence about trying it, despite my personal issues with Andrew on the board here. But seeing him do as I said, and deflect or not answer, and then speculate after accusing others of speculating?

I'd honestly say the round goes to Epilogy.

Your claims of falsehood have been disproven, Ateraan. Epilogy's have been shown to be accurate. At least the majority of them.

As to the shilling? So long as you do it in mud promotion boards, that's your business. But keep it to your own posts, eh? Try not to advertise your mud on someone else's mud post?

Not saying I have any specific instances of such, just giving a general bit of request.

But yeah, you pushing the "come try it!" stuff instead of answering questions honestly? Not impressing anyone.

Edoras

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Re: Ateraan: A Constructive List of Immoral Behavior
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2018, 1:13 AM »
Every claim I have made is absolutely true. Two posters here have already attested to them. There is no opinion in them. These are cold, hard calculations.

You -will- be provided with otherwise unattainable permanent stat boosts to your character through paying.
You -will- be instantly rewarded with coin and experience by paying money.
You -will- be able to, with signets earned through that same paying, be able to either buy even more experience or money or have your choice of many other items, including
A) Exclusive items that increase your hard cap of XP earned per day by multiple factors over non-paying players ($750 total must paid to a single character to be able to purchase these items for $50 each).
Quote from: Shadow Market Gold room, $750 required to access
50    Fireplace   This is a plan to build a fireplace in a standard room at
                   your residence. The fireplace makes the room cozy and has
                   other properties.
B) Exclusive upgrades to your own armor to be able to regen substantially in battle, to the point where gaining experience and battling difficult monsters for experience or gear is a cakewalk compared to other players ($75 per armor slot, so upwards of $350 or more can be spent, yet there are multiple players with full sets after the wipe).
Quote from: Shadow Market Silver room, $500 required to access
75    Anvil       The silver anvil will allow a merchant or trader to forge
                   enhanced armour for you. The process requires sacrificing
                   armour from which you want to match basic attributes from.
                   This anvil is beyond the copper anvil in that the forger 
                   is able to add special enhancements to the armour.

You -will- gain many otherwise unattainable benefits, like a higher maximum carrying capacity, the likes of which are proudly displayed in the help signet snippet I quoted earlier. You will also gain many other benefits, some major, some minor, the list of which is too extensive and dry to be of any worthwhile discussion, as the preceding are amongst the worst offenders.
Quote from: Ateraan
I've found over 20 years that those who cheat, try to get around rules, abuse the system then get busted are normally the loudest critics around.

I would challenge every person like Edoras to sign their post with their character name. I can promise you there is a plethora of history on them being a problem with staff and administration.
The fact that you have resorted to ad hominem attacks instead of attempting to justify these as being somehow roleplay-oriented rewards tells its own story.

If someone wants to play your game, they should. However, they should not be lied to, and should be well aware that NWA is absolutely pay-to-win.

Teryel

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Re: Ateraan: A Constructive List of Immoral Behavior
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2018, 1:25 AM »
Every claim I have made is absolutely true. Two posters here have already attested to them. There is no opinion in them. These are cold, hard calculations.

You -will- be provided with otherwise unattainable permanent stat boosts to your character through paying.
You -will- be instantly rewarded with coin and experience by paying money.
You -will- be able to, with signets earned through that same paying, be able to either buy even more experience or money or have your choice of many other items, including
A) Exclusive items that increase your hard cap of XP earned per day by multiple factors over non-paying players ($750 total must paid to a single character to be able to purchase these items for $50 each).
Quote from: Shadow Market Gold room, $750 required to access
50    Fireplace   This is a plan to build a fireplace in a standard room at
                   your residence. The fireplace makes the room cozy and has
                   other properties.
B) Exclusive upgrades to your own armor to be able to regen substantially in battle, to the point where gaining experience and battling difficult monsters for experience or gear is a cakewalk compared to other players ($75 per armor slot, so upwards of $350 or more can be spent, yet there are multiple players with full sets after the wipe).
Quote from: Shadow Market Silver room, $500 required to access
75    Anvil       The silver anvil will allow a merchant or trader to forge
                   enhanced armour for you. The process requires sacrificing
                   armour from which you want to match basic attributes from.
                   This anvil is beyond the copper anvil in that the forger 
                   is able to add special enhancements to the armour.

You -will- gain many otherwise unattainable benefits, like a higher maximum carrying capacity, the likes of which are proudly displayed in the help signet snippet I quoted earlier. You will also gain many other benefits, some major, some minor, the list of which is too extensive and dry to be of any worthwhile discussion, as the preceding are amongst the worst offenders.
Quote from: Ateraan
I've found over 20 years that those who cheat, try to get around rules, abuse the system then get busted are normally the loudest critics around.

I would challenge every person like Edoras to sign their post with their character name. I can promise you there is a plethora of history on them being a problem with staff and administration.
The fact that you have resorted to ad hominem attacks instead of attempting to justify these as being somehow roleplay-oriented rewards tells its own story.

If someone wants to play your game, they should. However, they should not be lied to, and should be well aware that NWA is absolutely pay-to-win.

See, here's the thing that I don't think the Ateraan people are getting when they claim the regen stuff is insignificant:

If there are two players with otherwise identical gear, identical levels, identical skills etc (Unlikely but using for this scenario to make a point), but one is pay to win and has the regen gear enhancements that cannot be obtained by the first character through play - he has a combat advantage that is unobtainable without paying RMT, and is thus "pay to win".

Teryel

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Re: Ateraan: A Constructive List of Immoral Behavior
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2018, 1:38 AM »

3) Blatant, thinly-disguised spam of community spaces. Posting stupid, obvious replies on
every single thread in a forum specifically to spread your name with no regard for in-place
systems specifically for advertisement is not only an insult to our intelligence, it also
gives you a general idea of their management. Take fact 1, and put it with 3 to develop a
sense of entitlement at least in the owner's head, nevermind the staff. Just because you
CAN use a space doesn't give you the RIGHT to use it as you see fit to shove your agenda.
There's enough unwanted advertisement in our lives without a space intended for information
being perverted into the Ateraan Advertising System.

I think the following is the sort of thing Epilogy is referring to here:

That really does help Areia. We try to have many features for sight impaired people to play at Ateraan and have developed some of the things you are talking about specifically for those players.

Yes, it's on topic, but it's also pretty blatantly you turning yet another thread into an opportunity to push "COME PLAY ATERAAN".

And it does get tiresome. It's extremely overdone.

If you want more examples, I'll gladly scan your posts and give them to you. But despite your denials, this does happen.

Ateraan

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Re: Ateraan: A Constructive List of Immoral Behavior
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2018, 1:46 AM »
Every claim I have made is absolutely true. Two posters here have already attested to them. There is no opinion in them. These are cold, hard calculations.
Wrong. Prove it like I asked before. You can continue to misquote partial descriptions, out of context items, all you want. If you are so sure of yourself what is the harm in identifying yourself? Exactly.
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Ateraan

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Re: Ateraan: A Constructive List of Immoral Behavior
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2018, 1:52 AM »
That really does help Areia. We try to have many features for sight impaired people to play at Ateraan and have developed some of the things you are talking about specifically for those players.
Yes, it's on topic, but it's also pretty blatantly you turning yet another thread into an opportunity to push "COME PLAY ATERAAN".

And it does get tiresome. It's extremely overdone.

If you want more examples, I'll gladly scan your posts and give them to you. But despite your denials, this does happen.
Then ignore them? If you think it is spam, ignore it. Is it really that hard? Or are you saying you shouldn't have to. That I shouldn't respond to posts for your convenience or because you think it is advertising? Exactly, what is it you are asking for? If it is so obvious don't you think the other people here could see that to and just roll their eyes? Or am I somehow harming the community? There are admins that post more often about game updates than I do answering questions. I don't complain. I think it is great to have more activity here. You should too.

People here should join together not tear down. I promote other games as often as I feel it is important. Even some that I don't like personally. Can you say the same? You should.
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