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Author Topic: We lost the internet.  (Read 20486 times)

Arond

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We lost the internet.
« on: December 15, 2017, 9:02 AM »
Ajit Pai, the corporate shill with a nice paycheck waiting for him after he is no longer the chairman of the FCC can still get his and their decisions overturned...  We just need to stand up against them...  If we can...  They had bot accounts stealing identities.  You can search for your own name https://ag.ny.gov/FakeComments

Easy to follow with a statement already written in jargon you might not care about but you can obviously throw in your own two cents or just rewrite it.  https://www.battleforthenet.com/

Just throwing it out there.

Also, Davion, fix Mudbytes, you can't post new forum posts, search for files or even download files.  They all throw error 500(Or give access to the files so people can mirror it).  :p
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 9:04 AM by Arond »

Tijer

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Re: We lost the internet.
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2017, 11:23 AM »
mudbytes isnt even working for me!
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Jodah

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Re: We lost the internet.
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2017, 6:53 PM »
Ridiculous.  I see you bought in to the Internet hysteria.  Net neutrality was never actually neutral.  It stifled innovation and raised costs.  The Internet was saved.

Ateraan

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Re: We lost the internet.
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2017, 3:19 AM »
Ridiculous.  I see you bought in to the Internet hysteria.  Net neutrality was never actually neutral.  It stifled innovation and raised costs.  The Internet was saved.
Amen and hallelujah! Well said, Jodah.
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Hades_Kane

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Re: We lost the internet.
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2017, 1:27 PM »
Lol, you guys are funny.

Hopefully Congress will step in and do the right thing.
-Diablos
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arholly

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Re: We lost the internet.
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2017, 5:31 PM »
I mean because before "net neutrality" existed in 2015, clearly the internet was in complete shambles.   ;)

desharei

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Re: We lost the internet.
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2017, 10:39 PM »
I mean because before "net neutrality" existed in 2015, clearly the internet was in complete shambles.   ;)

Before the net neutrality regulations, there existed the very real possibility - (not necessarily a likelihood) for internet providers to offer you only the content they wanted you to have. Or pay extra for content you actually wanted. For instance:

Xfinity could charge you $40/month for the standard internet package - but if you wanted access to Facebook and Twitter, you'd have to pay $5 extra each per month. If you want Netflix and YouTube, you'd have to pay an extra $20/month. If you also wanted Snapchat, it'd be an extra $10/month.  But no streaming during regular work hours or on weekends, that part of the day's area-wide bandwidth is reserved for businesses that pay extra for it. You can have the same bandwidth for an extra $200/month, just like the businesses pay. Tumblr and reddit? Forget it. Not available at all, they don't want you to have access to it. In an area where that's the only ISP available? You're outta luck.

They can do with the internet what they've done with Cable TV. Do you really want to have to pick and choose which websites you will visit in the next 2 year contract period, and pay extra for each additional item, and even then - if there are businesses in the area, they get first dibs at bandwidth and your speed will slow down accordingly depending on how much the store across the street is using that particular hour, because they pay more?

I'm not saying that's what "will" happen. I'm saying that the regulations existed to prevent it from happening. Without the regulations, it CAN happen. And that's why people are upset.

Ateraan

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Re: We lost the internet.
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2017, 12:10 AM »
Lol, you guys are funny.

Hopefully Congress will step in and do the right thing.
Oh good lord NO. Since when has Congress stepped in and done anything right. The only thing they step in is horse !#$!@$
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Ateraan

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Re: We lost the internet.
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2017, 12:19 AM »
Before the net neutrality regulations, there existed the very real possibility - (not necessarily a likelihood) for internet providers to offer you only the content they wanted you to have. Or pay extra for content you actually wanted.

Um so? This is called Free Market. In other words, the consumer drives the economics via supply and demand. So what if Xfinity charges whatever they want. If they don't have what you want or for the right price you have every opportunity to go elsewhere. Walmart is the King of this type of marketing. They made an empire out of giving the customer what they wanted.

This same concept works for every product, service, and company in existence. Cars, Movies, Soap, Cereal, everything. The only time things get messed up is when the Government steps in and screws it up. Good example: Post Office vs. Fed Ex. Another example: Airport Security vs. TSA (if you need me to detail the problems with TSA and why they suck vs. private industry I will).

I just hope no one is fooled by thinking somehow the government will fix the internet. If that's the case, run for the hills.
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Hades_Kane

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Re: We lost the internet.
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2017, 5:02 PM »
When so few companies control internet access in the country, there is essentially no "free market" to regulate itself.

In my area, for example (and it's not a small market) I have two viable options for internet access (both of which are also cable companies; AT&T and Suddenlink), and its not unbelievable at all to think that both would decide to prioritize and/or slow their competitors services.  In many parts of the country, they would be envious of my two options.

Even if a company doesn't decide on a national level to say "we don't want our customers to cancel their cable subscription so we're going to throttle their speeds to <insert any live-tv streaming service>" because they can easily do it in smaller markets in which they hold a monopoly, or markets like mine with a duopoly where it would be mutually beneficial for both companies to decide (either independently, or in collusion) to work in their own interests.

Essentially what they already do with their cable packages (for reference, my cable bill has gone up $40 in 2017, and I'm currently at around $250 per month for my service).

Also, think how happy you are with the monopolies almost EVERY area in the US with regards to your utilities.  With the importance of the internet to our society, it SHOULD be classified as a utility.

As far as the "before 2015"...

https://www.freepress.net/blog/2017/04/25/net-neutrality-violations-brief-history
Quote
MADISON RIVER:  In 2005, North Carolina ISP Madison River Communications blocked the voice-over-internet protocol (VOIP) service Vonage. Vonage filed a complaint with the FCC after receiving a slew of customer complaints. The FCC stepped in to sanction Madison River and prevent further blocking, but it lacks the authority to stop this kind of abuse today.

COMCAST: In 2005, the nation’s largest ISP, Comcast, began secretly blocking peer-to-peer technologies that its customers were using over its network. Users of services like BitTorrent and Gnutella were unable to connect to these services. 2007 investigations from the Associated Press, the Electronic Frontier Foundation and others confirmed that Comcast was indeed blocking or slowing file-sharing applications without disclosing this fact to its customers.

TELUS: In 2005, Canada’s second-largest telecommunications company, Telus, began blocking access to a server that hosted a website supporting a labor strike against the company. Researchers at Harvard and the University of Toronto found that this action resulted in Telus blocking an additional 766 unrelated sites.

AT&T: From 2007–2009, AT&T forced Apple to block Skype and other competing VOIP phone services on the iPhone. The wireless provider wanted to prevent iPhone users from using any application that would allow them to make calls on such “over-the-top” voice services. The Google Voice app received similar treatment from carriers like AT&T when it came on the scene in 2009.

WINDSTREAM: In 2010, Windstream Communications, a DSL provider with more than 1 million customers at the time, copped to hijacking user-search queries made using the Google toolbar within Firefox. Users who believed they had set the browser to the search engine of their choice were redirected to Windstream’s own search portal and results.

MetroPCS: In 2011, MetroPCS, at the time one of the top-five U.S. wireless carriers, announced plans to block streaming video over its 4G network from all sources except YouTube. MetroPCS then threw its weight behind Verizon’s court challenge against the FCC’s 2010 open internet ruling, hoping that rejection of the agency’s authority would allow the company to continue its anti-consumer practices.

PAXFIRE: In 2011, the Electronic Frontier Foundation found that several small ISPs were redirecting search queries via the vendor Paxfire. The ISPs identified in the initial Electronic Frontier Foundation report included Cavalier, Cogent, Frontier, Fuse, DirecPC, RCN and Wide Open West. Paxfire would intercept a person’s search request at Bing and Yahoo and redirect it to another page. By skipping over the search service’s results, the participating ISPs would collect referral fees for delivering users to select websites.

AT&T, SPRINT and VERIZON: From 2011–2013, AT&T, Sprint and Verizon blocked Google Wallet, a mobile-payment system that competed with a similar service called Isis, which all three companies had a stake in developing.

EUROPE: A 2012 report from the Body of European Regulators for Electronic Communications found that violations of Net Neutrality affected at least one in five users in Europe. The report found that blocked or slowed connections to services like VOIP, peer-to-peer technologies, gaming applications and email were commonplace.

VERIZON: In 2012, the FCC caught Verizon Wireless blocking people from using tethering applications on their phones. Verizon had asked Google to remove 11 free tethering applications from the Android marketplace. These applications allowed users to circumvent Verizon’s $20 tethering fee and turn their smartphones into Wi-Fi hot spots. By blocking those applications, Verizon violated a Net Neutrality pledge it made to the FCC as a condition of the 2008 airwaves auction.

AT&T: In 2012, AT&T announced that it would disable the FaceTime video-calling app on its customers’ iPhones unless they subscribed to a more expensive text-and-voice plan. AT&T had one goal in mind: separating customers from more of their money by blocking alternatives to AT&T’s own products.

VERIZON: During oral arguments in Verizon v. FCC in 2013, judges asked whether the phone giant would favor some preferred services, content or sites over others if the court overruled the agency’s existing open internet rules. Verizon counsel Helgi Walker had this to say: “I’m authorized to state from my client today that but for these rules we would be exploring those types of arrangements.” Walker’s admission might have gone unnoticed had she not repeated it on at least five separate occasions during arguments.
-Diablos
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Hades_Kane

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Re: We lost the internet.
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2017, 5:04 PM »
Also, the Government hasn't been micro managing the internet... if you buy into that line of reasoning, or that Net Neutrality stifles innovation, I have some swamp land in Florida for sale...

The Government has simply said "keep the internet fair and open", that isn't micro managing.  There is NO comparison between that and the TSA or anything of the sort.  And the ONLY innovation that is being stifled is "innovative" ways for these companies to bleed consumers and content producers out of more money than they already get.
-Diablos
End of Time, a 100% free Final Fantasy & Chrono Trigger based MUD with a large original world, unique combat & magic systems, and more!
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Ateraan

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Re: We lost the internet.
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2017, 2:38 AM »
Also, the Government hasn't been micro managing the internet... if you buy into that line of reasoning, or that Net Neutrality stifles innovation, I have some swamp land in Florida for sale...
I never said they were, I said they will if you open the door. Have you ever heard of the Affordable Health Care Bill? Welfare? FCC? Social Security? Income Tax?

The Government has simply said "keep the internet fair and open", that isn't micro managing.
And exactly who is the Government? It is very clear to me that you do not understand the concept of the Federal Government or the Plethora of laws and regulations they happily employ when a bill passes.

There is NO comparison between that and the TSA or anything of the sort.  And the ONLY innovation that is being stifled is "innovative" ways for these companies to bleed consumers and content producers out of more money than they already get.
This is how the Government operates HK. They have a great solution that only the Gman can implement. Then after a year they decide to modify that solution. Then in 5 years they modify it further and further and further until yes, my friend, they are now in the business of controlling content and companies and who controls them? You might say you and I through votes. WRONG. They are controlled by alligator shoe wearing lobbyists and SIGs (special interest groups) and they will change things whether you like it or not.

I am generalizing here, not all programs end up like this but most do. To make a clear blanket statement: The government can NEVER do a better job in any field than the private industry (you and me) can. Ever. Period.

Why? Because the government doesn't hire top notch people, they hire mediocrity. Why? Because the government isn't in business to make money only to spend money. Every division of every agency in the Federal government would go out of business if they had to compete with private industry.

Technically, the quality and ability of government agencies can be reflected in two words: Government Sucks.

If you want suckage running the show then go for this Net Equality, but don't complain when it ends up screwing you so badly you wished it never began. ;)

On a side note: If your internet blows that hard core, buy a cheap phone plan and go with the Hot Spot and stick it to those ISP's. :P
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Molly

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Re: We lost the internet.
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2017, 8:54 AM »
... they are now in the business of controlling content and companies and who controls them? You might say you and I through votes. WRONG. They are controlled by alligator shoe wearing lobbyists and SIGs (special interest groups) and they will change things whether you like it or not.
...

Well, I for one am worried. And with the present president of the United States; who wouldn't be?

Meanwhile, here is some Mud history for you all, to take the mind off the present unpleasantnesses, and bask in some nostalgia instead:

Almost every existing mudder has, at some time of their history, wandered through the streets of the Stock city Midgard. Around that city is a wall.  And on that wall is an inscription. And if you look at the inscription...

"It says 'Who watches the watchmen?'

It's been some twenty years since I first read that inscription, but for some reason it stuck in my mind.

Molly O'Hara of 4 Dimensions
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Jodah

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Re: We lost the internet.
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2017, 11:31 AM »

Well, I for one am worried. And with the present president of the United States; who wouldn't be?

I certainly am not.  In fact I have never felt so much trust and optimism in a President before.  As far as internet companies charging money to access certain sites is just ridiculous.  They didn't before 2015, and they won't after.  They won't have to because their costs just went way down.  For example, tax cuts and net neutrality repeal has allowed Comcast to announce they are investing 50 billion back to America and giving their employees bonuses. 

Quote
As far as the "before 2015"...

You just gave the argument AGAINST net neutrality.  None of those changes before 2015 lasted because the MARKET won, negating any need for more expensive regulation.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 11:35 AM by Jodah »

Hades_Kane

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Re: We lost the internet.
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2017, 11:59 AM »

Well, I for one am worried. And with the present president of the United States; who wouldn't be?

I certainly am not.  In fact I have never felt so much trust and optimism in a President before.  As far as internet companies charging money to access certain sites is just ridiculous.  They didn't before 2015, and they won't after.  They won't have to because their costs just went way down.  For example, tax cuts and net neutrality repeal has allowed Comcast to announce they are investing 50 billion back to America and giving their employees bonuses. 

Quote
As far as the "before 2015"...

You just gave the argument AGAINST net neutrality.  None of those changes before 2015 lasted because the MARKET won, negating any need for more expensive regulation.

-Diablos
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