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Author Topic: What Constitutes a AAA Game  (Read 5141 times)

IFamiINIe

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Re: What Constitutes a AAA Game
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2017, 2:50 PM »
Well, you are certainly welcome to your opinion. I would say that most of your above information is wrong, especially being revenue of a business has nothing to do whether or not their games are AAA. It's just a matter if those AAA games are selling well.

For example, if you're citing the article I think you are with the 300 million NOK, todays conversion rates would peg it around 35 million USD. At the launch, it was more like 50 million USD (if you use that article as your source) as the conversion rates have went from 6 NOK to 8 NOK per 1 USD. And that article is likely quoting dev costs only. Marketing would be another deal of money as well. Hence why these are AAA games. You're talking 85 million to 150 million in costs to goto market. Sometimes even more if you're someone like Blizzard.

So, this is where I will leave you. Interesting chat. Very eye opening.  ;)
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 3:10 PM by IFamiINIe »
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Jodah

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Re: What Constitutes a AAA Game
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2017, 10:20 PM »

Funcom is not a "OG" in MMOG's. Their first MMO was Anarchy Online. It came out 6 years after that term was coined to describe Confirmed Kill.

As for Jodah, it's funny, he responds that those games are AA at best initially, but then lets his dislike for me override his common sense and flipflops on the issue because in his eyes agreeing with me on something would be a disgrace.

I was being sarcastic, so sorry you couldn't see it.  Also not calling Anarchy Online a pioneer and OG in the mmorpg business?  This is how we know you're clueless.  That game is OLD, one of the pioneers.

Also it's hilarious how iFamine keeps quoting development costs, and Drizzt keeps raising his number on what an AAA is supposed to cost haha. 

Secret World alone is a big big game.  So many voice overs and quests.  It alone makes Funcom an AAA studio.  The fact Drizzt is fighting so hard to belittle someone just wreaks of trolling and jealousy.  Don't worry Drizzt, one day you might be able to work for a AAA studio like iFamine. 

Drizzt1216

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Re: What Constitutes a AAA Game
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2017, 9:38 AM »

Funcom is not a "OG" in MMOG's. Their first MMO was Anarchy Online. It came out 6 years after that term was coined to describe Confirmed Kill.

As for Jodah, it's funny, he responds that those games are AA at best initially, but then lets his dislike for me override his common sense and flipflops on the issue because in his eyes agreeing with me on something would be a disgrace.

I was being sarcastic, so sorry you couldn't see it.  Also not calling Anarchy Online a pioneer and OG in the mmorpg business?  This is how we know you're clueless.  That game is OLD, one of the pioneers.

Also it's hilarious how iFamine keeps quoting development costs, and Drizzt keeps raising his number on what an AAA is supposed to cost haha. 

Secret World alone is a big big game.  So many voice overs and quests.  It alone makes Funcom an AAA studio.  The fact Drizzt is fighting so hard to belittle someone just wreaks of trolling and jealousy.  Don't worry Drizzt, one day you might be able to work for a AAA studio like iFamine.

Is reading hard for you?

Or do you simply find it more convenient to just make things up?

I never once "raised the bar" for what I feel constitutes AAA, and Famine never once cited development costs. Anarchy Online is old, I didn't dispute that. However "old" and "original" do not have the same meaning.

Your constant claims that anyone outspoken with an opinion is jealous though is kind of funny. I guess it stems from the inadequacy you feel from being one of the few non developers on a site packed with them.

Sorry to break it to you, but I work for a fortune 500 business and make 6 digit income a year. I'm certainly not jealous of someone who worked for a  company that couldn't afford to pay its employees the amount of money I make.

What is Funcom like?  I would imagine there's a constant aura of going out of business.

Most of those games are AA tops.

Those were also, certainly, not sarcasm. It's just you backpedaling now, as usual.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 9:43 AM by Drizzt1216 »

IFamiINIe

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Re: What Constitutes a AAA Game
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2017, 10:20 AM »
And as I said before, I can't tell you what those games costed the company. I can say that the games I mentioned were AAA. I would consider AAA games to cost 20 million or more to make. For MMORPG, I would say that you would need to be 20 million to 150 million+ to be competitive. Don't take my word for it, take some of the developers and publishers you quoted word for it,

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In June 2009 Ubisoft reiterated that major titles for PS3/X360 cost $20-$30 million to make and that games for the next-generation may exceed $60 million

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Nintendo's own Reggie Fils-Aime states developing games for the Nintendo DS is cheap, costing only a few hundreds of thousands of dollars to develop and only needing to sell 100k units to make a profit. Wii games require about $5-10 million in the average case, including marketing costs.

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It took between $5 to $10 million to develop a PS2 game versus $800,000 to $1.7 million for the original PlayStation.

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There is no question, however, that the cost to make a AAA games in going up across the board. Last summer, when Kotaku editor-in-chief Stephen Totilo talked to Sony's head of worldwide development, Shuhei Yoshida, about game budgets, Yoshida said budgets for top-tier PS4 games would be "slightly larger" than the $20 to $50 million price range he estimated as the development cost for "top PS3 games." Four years ago, Ubisoft CEO Yves Guillemot estimated that the average production budget for the generation of games following Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 would be $60 million. In an 2012 investor report, Take-Two admitted some of its "top titles" cost in excess of $60 million for development alone.

Then of course a good list cited from resources in the industry and analyst experts. Not completely accurate, but they do cite the publishers who do confirm the costs.

Quote
1999

Crash Team Racing - $2.4 million - Jason Rubin said $2.4 million was spent developing this kart racer, which was Naughty Dog's last Crash Bandicoot game.

EverQuest - $3 million - In an interview with PC Zone, EverQuest II producer Andy Sites claimed the development budget on the first game was $3 million.

Gabriel Knight 3 - $4.2 million - In a Gamasutra postmortem, the project's technical lead Scott Bilas revealed that the development spend on the adventure game sequel was $4.2 million.

Resident Evil 2 $1 million - Development costs on Angel Studios' Nintendo 64 port of the horror sequel were $1 million, according to a Game Developer postmortem.

Shenmue - $47 million - In a GDC 2011 presentation, Yu Suzuki said the infamously expensive game's total cost was $47 million, not $70 million as commonly reported.

System Shock 2 - $1.7 million - According to a Game Developer postmortem by Irrational cofounder Jon Chey, the sci-fi horror sequel's budget was $1.7 million.

Unreal Tournament - $2 million - In his Game Developer postmortem, former Epic Games programmer Brandon Reinhart said the multiplayer shooter's development budget was $2 million.

2001

Black & White $5.7 million - Peter Molyneux's Game Developer postmortem for the game said the god game cost $5.7 million to develop.

Dark Age of Camelot - $3.1 million - Mythic cofounder Mark Jacobs told Gamasutra in 2008 the fantasy MMO cost $2.5 million to develop and an additional $650,000 to market, indicating a combined launch spend around $3.1 million.

Dave Mirra Freestyle BMX 2 - $4 million (marketing) - In a press release, publisher Acclaim revealed that the extreme sports sequel had a marketing budget of $4 million.

Jak and Daxter - $14 million - Jason Rubin said Naughty Dog's followup to Crash Bandicoot cost $14 million to develop.

2002

Freedom Force - $2 million - Ken Levine told an MIT audience the retro superhero strategy game cost $2 million to develop.

Hitman 2 - €3.5 million - In an article from a Danish governmental trade council's English-language publication, IO Interactive managing director Janos Flösser said the Hitman sequel had a development cost of 3.5 million euros.

Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers - $20 million - The first console game based on Peter Jackson's famed film adaptation had a $20 million budget, according to a former Stormfront Studios technical director.

NFL 2K3 - $15 million - Then-Sega COO Peter Moore told The Wall Street Journal the budget for the company's second multiplatform football game was about $15 million.

FAST FORWARD SOME YEARS...

2007

Age of Conan - kr200 million - Norwegian business publication Dagens Næringsliv reported that Funcom's fantasy MMO cost in excess of 200 million Norwegian kroner.

BioShock - $15 million - Irrational Games' Ken Levine claimed in an MIT Q&A session that development costs on the dystopian first-person game were $15 million.

Black College Football Experience - $9 million - According to a former executive at now-defunct developer Nerjyzed Entertainment, the budget on this football simulation was $9 million.

Crackdown - $20 million - David Jones, former head of now-defunct developer Realtime Worlds, told GamesIndustry.biz the cult open-world game had a development budget of around $20 million.

Crysis - €15 million - At the 2008 Games Convention Developers Conference in Germany, Cevat Yerli said the PC-only shooter had a development budget of 15 million euros.

Halo MMO - $90 million - In an interview with IncGamers, Dusty Monk—a former Ensemble Studios engineer—claimed the studio's never released Halo MMO (codenamed "Titan") had a project budget of $90 million.

Heavenly Sword - $20 million - A former Sony Computer Entertainment Europe senior producer pegged Ninja Theory's cinematic action title at a development cost of $20 million.

Marathon 2: Durandal - $0.3 million - Development costs on the Xbox Live Arcade port of Bungie's 1995 FPS sequel were $300,000, according to a Gamasutra postmortem.

Rock Band - $20 million - According to BostonInno, the development budget on the first Rock Band was $20 million.

Strangehold - $30 million - In an interview with GamesIndustry.biz, former Midway Europe managing director Martin Spiess said the John Woo action game "cost around $30 million."

Stuntman: Ignition - $20 million - A former Paradigm Entertainment designer said the project's development budget was $20 million.

Then some hand picks for our comparison.

Quote
Guild Wars - $20-30 million - ArenaNet cofounder Jeff Strain told the Seattle Times his company spent between $20 million and $30 million developing their first MMO.

World of Warcraft - $200 million - In a September 2008 analyst conference call, Blizzard disclosed that the cost of four years of post-launch upkeep on the blockbuster MMO was $200 million.

City of Heroes - $7 million - A 2004 Forbes profile of then-developer Cryptic Studios claimed the development cost of the superhero MMO was $7 million, and publisher NCSoft budgeted $18 million for annual marketing, maintenance and support costs.

Dark Age of Camelot - $3.1 million - Mythic cofounder Mark Jacobs told Gamasutra in 2008 the fantasy MMO cost $2.5 million to develop and an additional $650,000 to market, indicating a combined launch spend around $3.1 million.

EverQuest - $3 million - In an interview with PC Zone, EverQuest II producer Andy Sites claimed the development budget on the first game was $3 million.

Age of Conan - kr200 million - Norwegian business publication Dagens Næringsliv reported that Funcom's fantasy MMO cost in excess of 200 million Norwegian kroner.

Rift - $60-70 million - In an interview with Develop, former Trion Worlds CEO Lars Buttler said the development budget on Trion's first game was more than $50 million. And an Effie Awards document pegged the cost of the game's marketing campaign as being between $10 million to $20 million.

Star Wars: The Old Republic - $200 million - A story on the Los Angeles Times' Hero Complex blog said the science-fiction MMO had a development budget of "nearly $200 million."

Warhammer 40k: Dark Millenium Online - $30 million - Former THQ executive Danny Bilson told Eurogamer last year the publisher spent around $30 million on this licensed MMO before the title was cancelled.

DC Universe Online - $50 million - According to the Los Angeles Times, Sony Online Entertainment's superhero MMO had "a [development] cost of more than $50 million."

The Secret World - $50 million - Costs on this MMO were in excess of $50 million, according to a former Funcom executive product manager.

If you look at just the last quotes on MMORPG's. I would consider all of these AAA games. They are all excessive in the 10's of millions range minus the older titles like EQ, which I would bet is wrong. DAOC may be true as they did license most of their tech, but to say Funcom for example is not competitive in the same budget range with most of these is silly. The only ones on this list that would belong in a new category would be Star Wars and World of Warcraft who went insanely high with their budgets.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 10:32 AM by IFamiINIe »
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Jodah

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Re: What Constitutes a AAA Game
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2017, 9:01 AM »
Your constant claims that anyone outspoken with an opinion is jealous though is kind of funny. I guess it stems from the inadequacy you feel from being one of the few non developers on a site packed with them.

Outspoken with an opinion?  Nah, you're just trolling.  You're misdirecting yet again.  You're hellbent on trying to destroy someone's credentials when it makes no bearing whatsoever to the discussion.  Constantly tearing down people is Drizzt.

Sorry to break it to you, but I work for a fortune 500 business and make 6 digit income a year. I'm certainly not jealous of someone who worked for a  company that couldn't afford to pay its employees the amount of money I make.

This is the internet, I make 9 figures a year and have 20 ladies waiting for me in the hot tub after I'm finished with this post.  We don't need proof for anything here.


Those were also, certainly, not sarcasm. It's just you backpedaling now, as usual.

It most certainly was sarcasm that went way over your head.  Who freaking cares if he worked for a AA company or a AAA company.  That's the point I was trying to make.  I couldn't fathom anyone was actually serious about debating whether a game was AAA or AA.

iFamine's work history is certainly more impressive than yours anyways.  Jealous much?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 9:04 AM by Jodah »

Ateraan

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Re: What Constitutes a AAA Game
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2017, 1:12 PM »
Holy cow, I read through this entire thread and can't believe it is so long simply to argue whether the OP truly worked worked with MMO's or not. Really? As if anyone posting here could make any claim whatsoever about the validity or not of his experience.

It's like a bunch of middle school basketball coaches arguing whether someone who was on the coaching staff of an NCAA team was working for an IA, IAA, or IAAA school.
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Jodah

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Re: What Constitutes a AAA Game
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2017, 5:41 AM »
Actually incorrect.  The thread is a breakoff, meaning the original point of this thread was not to argue about someone's work experience.  Also there was only 1 person in the thread attacking someone else's experience, meaning they are the only one that could be compared to a child or middle school basketball coach as the rest of us recognize the ridiculousness of the whole thing.  Apparently it's really really really REALLY super important to Drizzt that iFamine not think of himself as being too cool.

IFamiINIe

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Re: What Constitutes a AAA Game
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2017, 10:37 AM »
TBH, I only responded because it was a pretty crazy claim and I really enjoy discussing the industry. These forums are not as active as they once were (I've obviously been around here for a long time). So, it's good to have active discussions to keep the peoples engaged and or at the very least, entertained!  ;D
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Ateraan

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Re: What Constitutes a AAA Game
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2017, 3:45 PM »
Actually incorrect.  The thread is a breakoff, meaning the original point of this thread was not to argue about someone's work experience.  Also there was only 1 person in the thread attacking someone else's experience, meaning they are the only one that could be compared to a child or middle school basketball coach as the rest of us recognize the ridiculousness of the whole thing.  Apparently it's really really really REALLY super important to Drizzt that iFamine not think of himself as being too cool.
Ha! Duly noted.
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Ateraan

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Re: What Constitutes a AAA Game
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2017, 3:49 PM »
TBH, I only responded because it was a pretty crazy claim and I really enjoy discussing the industry. These forums are not as active as they once were (I've obviously been around here for a long time). So, it's good to have active discussions to keep the peoples engaged and or at the very least, entertained!  ;D
Agreed. Fiery topics do entertain, to be sure.
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alibab2323

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Re: What Constitutes a AAA Game
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2018, 8:18 PM »
Large budget, large team, established studio.