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Author Topic: Issue with Promotions  (Read 2503 times)

SteppinRazor

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Issue with Promotions
« on: August 26, 2017, 8:24 AM »
So apparently it's alright to promote your mud by advertising an event where a player is sold as a slave. Slavery is not an ok thing, and most especially not to be made light of.

Where is the difference between that, and:
Come on over to 4 Dimensions, where child prostitution is ok! You need a child bride? We got you! Remember, even if it's not approved by modern society, it's HISTORICAL, which makes it OK in our book!


I'm not a prude, but you need to draw the line at some point, so people aren't writing undercover troll posts to try and incite a controversy with the intent of bumping their thread. Mainly just because some people should be ashamed of using such subject matter as a selling point for their game, as I don't think anyone who's had any links to slavery would find it amusing to see some doughy basement dweller getting his jollies from being "enslaved".
Like a steppin' razor, better watch my sides.

Januz

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Re: Issue with Promotions
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2017, 11:04 PM »
I agree, slavery is not something to be condoned... in REAL LIFE.

However, in a game, with areas that are set to be historically (either entirely, or somewhat so) accurate, coupled with the fact that players are adults, I think it totally fine to put that content in there.

This is of course, my two cents.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
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Molly

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Re: Issue with Promotions
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2017, 7:12 AM »
Where is the difference between that, and:
Come on over to 4 Dimensions, where child prostitution is ok! You need a child bride? We got you! Remember, even if it's not approved by modern society, it's HISTORICAL, which makes it OK in our book!

I'm not a prude, but you need to draw the line at some point, so people aren't writing undercover troll posts to try and incite a controversy with the intent of bumping their thread.

Well, thanks for the free advertisement, but offering underage brides to our players has never been one of 4D's many features. (I'm sure you could come up with something better, if you tried a bit harder, for instance the Sicilian Mafia from Pleasure Planet has been peddling drugs to the population for quite some time).

I'm not a prude either, nor am I a fan of splitting or vaulting threads, since it usually kills the discussion, which at some times have the potential to become interesting, (although this is probably not the case with this particular thread).

But I have a strong belief that the members of these boards can recognise a troll when they see one, and already have made up their mind about who the troll is in this particular context.
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Epilogy

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Re: Issue with Promotions
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2017, 6:16 PM »
Very mature.

Call me a troll, and ban me for an entire month. The only person who is more interested, it seems, in promoting the entire community rather than their respective games.

**** it. Now I know why tyche, kavir, scandum, etc. Just decided to give this whole shebang the middle finger.

And for the record, you and kuroa are lazy cunts right up there with icculus. The only time you ever show up, or even do anything is when you continue your petty desire to arbitrarily ban people rather than come to any kind of understanding of the underlying problem which is this: ateraan is a ****ing hack who throws out meaningless replies left and right. That's spam. But... yknow... you call someone out on it because you motherfuckers are MIA, and are apparently too ****ing lazy to even be bothered to load up the page once a month... why and how the **** you even still have ANY kind of power here is completely beyond me.

So **** it. You win. **** tmc. **** your ass backwards carebear mentality. And a special fuxk you to molly, and kuroa, who's apparently too much of a hoe ass bitch to do anything but hit the ban bitton.

Zandy

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Re: Issue with Promotions
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2017, 10:28 PM »
Look out for that door....

MGrunbaum

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Re: Issue with Promotions
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2017, 5:14 AM »
Serious suggestion, Epilogy: Take a step back, drink a cup of tea / coffee; bask in the sun; smile to yourself in the mirror; consider why you're so angry at random internet peoples :)

Good luck to you where-ever you end up!
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 5:20 AM by MGrunbaum »

Molly

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Enough is enough
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2017, 8:25 AM »


Serious suggestion, Epilogy: Take a step back, drink a cup of tea / coffee; bask in the sun; smile to yourself in the mirror; consider why you're so angry at random internet peoples :)

I'll have to agree with MGrunbaum on this.
I'm usually not the first one to hit the ban button myself, but this last post was way over the line even for me. So, yeah, I am the one that banned you this time.

At the same time I'd like to comment a bit on how the moderator group usually  works.

Since we are all individuals, we all have a bit of different opinions on the point where a line has to be drawn. Judging from experience I'd say that Hades_Kane and myself are the ones most likely to let something questionable slip by at least for some time, while the other moderators tend to be a bit more firm.

This is one of the reasons why we usually discuss dubious cases within the group, before taking any action. The drawback with that is that the difference in our time zones causes a delay, which might be irritating to members of the boards, who like to see swift and decisive actions. But I think the advantages of different voices being heard before a decision is made oughtweighs that drawback.

Another more or less general rule is this: If one of us, or the game that we are running, gets targetted specifically by a poster, which has happened several times, we generally leave it to the rest of the Moderator group to take any decisive action. (Lets face it, our Muds are a bit like our babies, so it is only human to be a bit extra touchy about that, and so we keep our finger away from the button in those case).

Call me a troll, and ban me for an entire month. The only person who is more interested, it seems, in promoting the entire community rather than their respective games.

Well, I didn't actually call you a troll. I did however, in a somewhat roundabout way call SteppinRazor a troll,  and I'll stand for that. I stand for calling you a troll too by the way, since it seems fairly obvious by now what you are.

But there is one sentence in your post that still intrigues me.  Are you seriously claiming that you are "The only person who is more interested, it seems, in promoting the entire community rather than their respective games"?

Since I regrettably just hit the ban button on Epilogy, I am hoping that someone else in the community can explain that statement to me. In what ways, if any, is Epilogy promoting the entire mud community?


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Zandy

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Re: Issue with Promotions
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2017, 9:15 AM »
And if by the fact he says he promotes the mud community does that make him one of the "faces" of the community?  If that's the case then it's a community I have no interest in being a part of.  Thankfully he does not represent the large portion of folks that I've met in my mudding life.  And he's also one of the reasons I don't play a particular mud.  And I think there are others that feel the same.

Tijer

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Re: Issue with Promotions
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2017, 10:55 AM »
Did wonder who steppinrazor was... now we know.... Hasnt really done anything good in promoting MUDs recently, just pretty much acts the troll, and talks down to everyone. which ISNT what we need, MUDs are slowly dying out, but having someone like him frequenting forums and posting his random crap on every single thread isnt really what is needed, so good to see him gone :)
--Tijer
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Teryel

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Re: Issue with Promotions
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2018, 11:02 PM »
And if by the fact he says he promotes the mud community does that make him one of the "faces" of the community?  If that's the case then it's a community I have no interest in being a part of.  Thankfully he does not represent the large portion of folks that I've met in my mudding life.  And he's also one of the reasons I don't play a particular mud.  And I think there are others that feel the same.

Many, many others. Last time I looked it was crickets in there, which is a shame, because Diablos is a cool dude. He just refuses, for whatever reason, to reign in TheDude.

Zandy

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Re: Issue with Promotions
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2018, 9:21 AM »
Yeah, the game looks cool and they've made some additions.  But as long as he's there I won't bother.  I've seen too many issues with him in game as well as here.

Hades_Kane

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Re: Issue with Promotions
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2018, 2:48 PM »
Player activity comes and goes pretty wildly.

It's been a couple of years since there's been any sort of issue between any players and of the game's staff, and 99% of the issues has been almost squarely on a player being the problem and one of my staff having enough of it.  Most of what people will see publicly is going to be the tail end resolution of an issue, but has had no insight on the numerous issues and run-ins that almost always precede any sort of issue, which generally includes numerous instances of rule breaking or clearly and persistent trollish behavior.

No one is expected to kiss anyone's ass on my game, just show a very base level of decency and maturity toward one another.  There's nothing to "reign in" on my game.

Its unfortunate, and maybe a bit unfair to him, that a lot of punitive actions on the game will ultimately fall to him, both because that is a level of drama and stress I try to stay away from as much as possible to keep my motivation with my limited time as productive as possible, and because he tends to be able to have a more watchful eye on the game than I do; as a result, he tends to be painted as the bad guy far more than anyone else on the game, and it appears much more so that way when someone logs in and sees him finally reach the end of the rope as far as dealing with occasional trolls, cheaters, and even at times extremely abusive players.  If you haven't seen everything that has led to the vast majority of the situations, you don't have the information you need to make a fair accounting of the situation.

In any case, we have guidelines for dispute resolution ('help dispute resolution') in the game which details the best and proper way to handle issues, with guidelines and examples for Player/Player, Player/Staff, Staff/Staff, etc.  If anyone has a specific complaint or issue with any member of the game (player or staff) I'll be happy to review the complaint along with a log of the situation and address it accordingly.

And not that this matters, but the staff member in question is like a different person between being a regular poster here and being in an administration role on the game (or when acting in an official capacity as a representative of the game). 
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Epilogy

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Re: Issue with Promotions
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2018, 3:43 PM »
Sorry, I don't kiss ass. Not for you, not for my boss, or my mom, or anyone else for any reason.

I expect nothing less from our playerbase but decency. Failure to do that means you become my problem, and I honestly don't have time for problems. I deal with it. If you don't like it, don't break the rules. I frequent a variety of MUDs regularly, but you wouldn't know that. I follow the rules of the game, even silly ones like "NO ****ing CUSSING!". I've only been banned from 1-2 MUDs in all that time. Funny, I take the Epilogy mask off, and suddenly no one can recognize me. Slap it back on, and every hypocrite in the interwebs pokes their ugly little face out to tell me how important they are, and how I should do what they tell me to do. Maybe I'm like a real-life Grey Fox.

Honestly, all I really hear anymore is a bunch of entitled sh**. People want to come to my game, push their agenda, and put in 0 work. Fine, great. But if I ignore you, or respond in a negative way to your demands, everyone decides to lose their sh**. I don't give even a single flying **** if you manage to play any content I've created, because I didn't make it for you, or because I thought you'd like it. I made it for me, because it was an expression of what I had conceived in my mind, and it fascinated me enough that I decided to put in the hundreds of hours needed for my largest project. If you like it, cool. If not, no problem.

I'm not holding a gun to your head, chasing you through your house COME PLAY MY GAME. I'm not even really trying to inconvenience you when I do occasionally advertise, because we have enough bull**** advertisements we have no control of in this world.

And that, right there, is my stickler. I don't come here to see what new, inventive way they've "invented" to slap AATERAN all up and down TMC under the pretext of... well, anything. They're not really even trying to disguise the fact that they've converted the entire forum into the promotion banner for their tinysex codebase. I come here to see what's new, what's going on, get an idea of the bustle of the hobby. Kind of hard to do that when all I see is a sheet of bull**** replies spammed in by the same person. ON TOP of that... there's the issue that whoever is posting from all these different accounts really doesn't know jack sh** about MUDs. They post claims about coining terms for the hobby as a whole, but then balk the moment you suggest a concept from literally anywhere outside of their incestuous bubble.

As for talking down to anyone? No. I don't talk down to anyone. I leave that to people who think they're some kind of authority with rights to make people do what they say. I'll respect you up until you give me cause not to. Many people in this thread have given me cause not to. I don't even know, or care who most of you are. You broke the rules, got a little slap on the wrist, lost your sh**, got nochanneled, lost the rest of your sh** entirely, got banned. There you go, that's why you're not welcome anymore. It's not because of some weird god complex, it's because you couldn't follow a fairly simple set of common-sense rules.

And for the record, staff are not slaves. I am no creature belong to Diablos to be "reigned in". If you can't handle living life outside of an echo chamber, then **** off. I don't have time for your man-child rhetoric.

And as far as MUD promotions go... I do things differently than most of you. Hell, I've done almost literally everything different in respects to this hobby than the rest of you have. Had much success pushing your hobby? About as much success as Iccy has converting people with that silly banner of his, I'd imagine. I don't answer to any of you, so I suppose you'll just have to take it on faith that I've encouraged people to step outside the lines of convention, and convenience in regards to gaming, and our hobby.

We don't have to be friends, and you don't even have to like me, but the moment you stray into my path on some bull****, I will handle it like I do any other problem: brutal efficiency.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 3:49 PM by Epilogy »

Hades_Kane

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Re: Issue with Promotions
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2018, 4:53 PM »
It's been a couple of years since there's been any sort of issue between any players and of the game's staff, and 99% of the issues has been almost squarely on a player being the problem and one of my staff having enough of it.  Most of what people will see publicly is going to be the tail end resolution of an issue, but has had no insight on the numerous issues and run-ins that almost always precede any sort of issue, which generally includes numerous instances of rule breaking or clearly and persistent trollish behavior.

Quote
If you haven't seen everything that has led to the vast majority of the situations, you don't have the information you need to make a fair accounting of the situation.

In any case, we have guidelines for dispute resolution ('help dispute resolution') in the game which details the best and proper way to handle issues, with guidelines and examples for Player/Player, Player/Staff, Staff/Staff, etc.  If anyone has a specific complaint or issue with any member of the game (player or staff) I'll be happy to review the complaint along with a log of the situation and address it accordingly.

Actually funny I mention this... because the "last incident" I mentioned seems to have actually been Teryel, and some of what I mentioned here (more to the story, dispute resolution, etc.) were addressed 3 and a half years ago with this last incident.

I addressed it (AGAIN) here:

http://www.mudconnect.com/SMF/index.php?topic=81109.msg214055#msg214055

Further proof that the vast majority of the time when one of my staff is addressing (and at times, "running off") a problem player, he's doing the game a favor.
-Diablos
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Epilogy

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Re: Issue with Promotions
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2018, 5:02 PM »
That's right, I'm a favor to you motherfuckers! Stop being so damn ungrateful.

(sorry, I had to)