The Mud Connector

Author Topic: If you're green, you're mean!  (Read 7614 times)

Sombalance

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RE: If you're green, you're mean!
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2013, 7:05 AM »
If you want to see a different view of a goblin's life check out http://www.goblinscomic.org/

It's a web comic, not a mud (although it would make a cool mud).


cratylus

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RE: If you're green, you're mean!
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2013, 6:04 PM »
This is a very interesting comment. A lion would indeed make a terrible bookkeeper. In any case, you'd be disinclined to disagree with a lion bookkeeper...if you could.

I think that's the important part. Having a green visor, vest, and armband aren't enough to make a lion a bookkeeper. There are the details of language, planning, and abstract thought that tend to be missing from a feral predator.

I was watching that Hansel & Gretel remake (I was on a plane, feeling daffy, I'm allowed), and while I found it a lot more entertaining than I expected, I kept hitting these unpleasant congnitive walls. Example:

Witch hunter barges into a hut in the woods. Witch expresses displeasure at being home-invaded. Witch hunter demands information and cooperation. Witch prefers to try to kill witch hunter to death, but does not succeed.

Now, I do appreciate that the movie had a pretty and sexually rewarding "good witch" in it (oh, uh, spoiler warning), but come ON. Every greenskin witch was fair game JUST for being greenskin? And the humans wonder why they have a witch problem?

Granted, I may have overthought a pretty vulgar movie, but the problem is the oversimplification of a *sentient* antagonist. Back to the lion example...the problem with the lion bookkeeper isn't that it's a lion, it's that it's an animal. If it were sentient and able to be accountable for its behavior, then we'd judge it differently, and we'd be forced to accord it the same benefit of doubt (with sensible precautions for our safety, of course) as any other sentient being.

Otherwise, we are the monsters.

Lajos

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RE: If you're green, you're mean!
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2013, 6:53 PM »
I wrote an awful lot explaining my position, and then decided that it had already been said by everybody else, especially Zedrackis, Dentin, SandDreams and Cratylus. The only thing I want to add is this:

I don't believe that alignment restrictions work well on a racial basis, although they might as a starting basis. Alignments can change. And the reason why an RP enforced game might frown on a goblin book-keeper is because it opens the door for someone else to do the same. If goblins are expected to be the "bad guys" and all of them become "neutral" or "good guys" then the setting is broken.

FredBauder

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RE: If you're green, you're mean!
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2013, 8:59 AM »
Explain Gringotts bankers.

Lajos

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RE: If you're green, you're mean!
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2013, 3:23 PM »
While goblins might traditionally be the "bad guys" they don't always have to be. In writing, and in role-play, the setting determines the roles of the people. Writing is a fluid substance, and can change to whatever suits your purpose.

However, when the setting is already established, you must work within those rules or the story doesn't make sense. If the goblins are the "bad guys" then they are expected to be "bad guys". There might be a few that break the mold, so to speak. But if they all break the mold, then the story doesn't make sense.

But that is also why I said it might be okay to set a starting alignment. I might start as a slimeball goblin, but eventually become a goblin book-keeper. But then all of the struggle against my own nature becomes the story. To be a fitting story there would also have to be a penalty of some sort for going against my nature. For example, I might be a goblin book-keeper with a shop just outside of the town, but never be allowed into the town (kind of like the Khajit caravans in Skyrim).

I really recommend you re-read what Zedrackis and SandDreams had to say on the matter.

(Comment added by Lajos on Fri Jun 14 12:33:20 2013)

I forgot to mention how my statement relates to the Gringotts Bankers. In the Harry Potter universe, goblins are expected to be bankers, and so they are. But that is not true for the entire genre, which mostly adopts the setting from Lord of the Rings, which makes them "bad guys".